Was IBU? Train give up seat for a child situation

[FriendsObsessed]

So I was on the way home today. Busy train, full of commuters.
i managed to get a seat, one of those 3 that are on the side of the carriage and can be flipped up if needed.

An older couple got on with their (I assume) grandchildren.
The women next to me offered her seat to one of the kids. The grandfather came back saying at yes if they could sit together that would be lovely (keeping eye contact with the woman). She was like ‘I can only offer you my seat’. I didn’t move… he sat down with the child on his lap.

someone else got up and offered the seat to the other child. Same thing happened the grandmother sat down with the other child on her knees (kind of)

i tried to just chill (as I always do on the train) but I kept feeling very uncomfortable and sensed a bit of a death stare. The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining. When I got off the train I could hear the grandfather saying, now you sit here finally.

I’m just so annoyed at folks travelling on train with kids expecting that others should move/give up seats for them. AIBU?

ps the children were approx 4 and 6 yo

This sums it up perfectly.

@Mumma212 They should be taught that there are other people in the world who are as important as them and to assess whether their desires are really more important than someone else’s. Children are important, but not more important than other people. Selfishness is not helpful in a working society. Teaching children that they are more important than everyone else and have a right to whatever makes them comfortable with no regard to others is just building up problems for everyone- especially for the parents who will have to live with it.

You said you're an able bodied adult that expects children to give up their seat to you...why??
Children should be treated equal not more, not less important unless there's other needs to consider.

So I would expect my older son (teenage) to offer his seat to elderly, pregnant, someone with a disability or someone who looks like they may need it for whatever reason but not for an adult like you who's said you're able bodied.
And my son IS the first to jump up and give away his seat on a train or tube to some one who appeared to need it, he was bought up that way but he shouldn't have to give it up to any adult just because he's a child.

@Mumma212 I said I would expect it, not that I would accept it. By offering the child shows that they are thinking of others and can see others may have more need than themselves. Maybe a need they can not see. Young children do not develop the ability to make those finer judgments.

And how do the able bodied adults show they’re thinking of others? By coming on mumsnet whinging about not having to give up their seat?

Do you do the same and offer your seat to standing adults, who appear to have no more need for a seat than yourself, to show you are thinking of others?

@Okunevo As an adult I have some ability to make those finer judgements about need which children need support to make.
I regularly check my fellow passengers to see if any might possibly require a seat more than I do. Of course I do offer my seat. Regularly (about once a month). I always offer it to anyone older than me - so anyone, male or female, who appears over 50. I have also voluntarily given up my seat to children whom I suspected of being more vulnerable than me, people of any age who appear to have poorer balance than me and occasionally to a very fit people who are too short to hold on to any of the high support bars or straps.

Have you not heard of hidden disabilities? You have absolutely no way of determining somebody isn't in more need of a seat than you are just by looking at them.

@Oneiros I work with people with hidden disabilities, so yes, I have heard of them and am perhaps in a better situation to assess their presence than most. But hidden disability doesn't make them less able to stand, or more needy than I am, or any other fit and healthy person is after a relentless 12 hour shift preceded and followed by caring responsibilities.
I never said I was perfect, but as an intelligent and caring adult I consider my judgement to be better than that of a young child, who should be taught to recognise that their needs do not always trump those of the other people around them.

Why not offer your seat to any adult if you would expect a child to? In my experience, many children are better at noticing those in need than many adults so I disagree about children old enough to stand needing more support to notice others than an adult would. I do not support any blanket expectation of children standing for adults, children may have hidden disabilities themselves but not the confidence to speak up.

To clarify, I'm talking about older children and teens, not young children. It's not safe for young children to stand on public transport so they should not be giving up a seat except to sit on a caregiver's lap if one is available and the caregiver able to manage.

But hidden disability doesn't make them less able to stand

What? So you're able to see by looking at someone whether they, for example, have ME? Sorry but your comments are absurd. Some hidden disabilities might mot make someone less able to stand. Some do. But you would not have the faintest clue by looking at them.

I do not support any blanket expectation of children standing for adults, children may have hidden disabilities themselves but not the confidence to speak up.

Indeed. And be even more distressed about tutting and very overt disapproval from these people who view them as second class citizens because of their age, expect them to move for them, and wouldn't have the faintest idea about any additional health needs that might make that really hard for them. Not that a child should be expected to move for an adult anyway.

That's also a very bad thing to teach a child in general, deference to any random adult. It makes them vulnerable to abuse. Consideration for people yes. That they should treat adults as more deserving of respect than they are by default, absolutely not.

I don't mean they should never move for an adult obviously, before somebody wilfully misinterprets my last comment. I mean it should not be a default just because they are younger, what a ridiculous notion.

A society should be looking after its most vulnerable members. So yes children should be taught to be considerate of that and people with higher needs than theirs. But vulnerable members of society are those who are disabled, elderly, and children. And women in general in a different way. So the idea that a child should move for an able bodied adult I find pretty shocking really, and feel sorry for the children of any adults who hold such views.

Also find the comments earlier in the thread trying to justify this notion based on the idea that "children should have more stamina" amusing. Taken to its logical conclusion, men have more stamina than women and are physically stronger. So presumably the people who believe children should automatically offer their seat to an adult, also expect that if a woman is standing any men who are sitting down should offer the woman their seat?

Good luck with that.

I'm grateful when people offer my kids a seat, they are more wobbly and rubbish at holding on, but I wouldn't expect it.

I wouldn't expect someone to give up their seat for my child. If there is one seat, I will have her on my lap (she's 4). Bit difficult if you have 2 kids I guess.

You don't know how old they were? She said an "older couple", I would therefore assume over 60. I'd not see a couple on their 50s as being "older". My parents are well into their 60s with a 4 year old granddaughter and another on the way. My in laws are in their 70s, they're great and very active but a seat on the train wouldn't go amiss from someone younger.

Just to add another slant, my 62 year old DH was rather chagrined today when he realised the kindly teenager who offered him her seat on a crowded train had not offered it because she was moving to sit with her family but had gone to stand in the vestibule so he could sit down 😀I think in his head he is still about 30 years old!