Was IBU? Train give up seat for a child situation

[FriendsObsessed]

So I was on the way home today. Busy train, full of commuters.
i managed to get a seat, one of those 3 that are on the side of the carriage and can be flipped up if needed.

An older couple got on with their (I assume) grandchildren.
The women next to me offered her seat to one of the kids. The grandfather came back saying at yes if they could sit together that would be lovely (keeping eye contact with the woman). She was like ‘I can only offer you my seat’. I didn’t move… he sat down with the child on his lap.

someone else got up and offered the seat to the other child. Same thing happened the grandmother sat down with the other child on her knees (kind of)

i tried to just chill (as I always do on the train) but I kept feeling very uncomfortable and sensed a bit of a death stare. The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining. When I got off the train I could hear the grandfather saying, now you sit here finally.

I’m just so annoyed at folks travelling on train with kids expecting that others should move/give up seats for them. AIBU?

ps the children were approx 4 and 6 yo

Plus it's much more fun kicking other passengers if their feet are at head height.

Plus it's much more fun kicking other passengers if their feet are at head height.

Very good point! Like train whack-a-mole. Would even things up somewhat from expecting small children to get scared and crushed surrounded by the legs of passengers many times their size.

I shall insist my children give up their seats and test this out next time we travel.

My four year old weighs 17kg, a fat woman on a bus lost her balance when it stoped and crushed him against the bar he was holding. I’m now extra cautious of letting him stand as he bashed his ribs and shoulder. Children are vulnerable on packed transport in a way able bodied adults aren’t.

London is weird, I kept my kids that age on my knee as if they didn’t hold on there would be occasions where they went flying like a piece of shrapnel, but I think kids who live their develop something like sea legs and sway with the motion. Older than… 7 or eight? Rather they stood. If they were dying they could perch on me.

But why do these etiquette discussions never include the men in suits, my sister used to stand an hour and a half each way looking like a beached whale when she was pregnant with twins, her train commutes were always the same time as them.
Also anyone who ever helped me with a pram was someone who looked like a yob. Really young men ages to my son who also looks like he runs a small local gang. Those are the young men that helped with prams while the men in suits knocked your baby over with umbrellas.

London is weird,

@Pertinentowl it's not. It's like every other place, I guess.

People who insist Londoners don't talk to each other and make small children stand on public transport just because we are bigger than them are though.

I surmise that is because they don't live round here and are bit weird.

I‘d have given up my seat because I’ve been sat next to older kids who cough without putting their hand over their mouth and fidget. 😂 But I’d tell my own kids (when not toddlers) they can stand up. If they complained, I’d explain they are young and fit when off the train. I suppose some might think that if they’re young enough for balance to be an issue (as some have argued), they may be small enough to go on an adult’s lap? I don’t think a toddler needs their own seat other than on a lap.

I don't get why the Grandparents expected a stranger to give up their seat but didn't do so themselves! It is difficult for small children to stand on a train. I would definitely give up my seat being fit and well for a small child but not if the adults they are with are sitting down!

Not my experience at all, men, including men in suits were the first to offer me a seat when pregnant. In fact it was usually 40something women who pushed past me when I was ready to pop so ensure they got the seat first.
I’ve to walk up/down steps at my station every day and a woman has never once offered to help me.

Those seats you described are usually ones that should be given up to people less able to stand, on most trains anyway. Unless you have health issues, which if you have you haven’t mentioned in your post, then an older couple and 2 young kids probably are less able to stand than you.

You want them to stop moving around etc (I agree they should be told not to) but then when they get something such as a sticker book out of the bag to occupy themselves to stop the misbehaving, you still aren’t happy?! 🤣

Absolute cheek. You did the right thing to sit tight. They probably were travelling free in any case.

I agree...my kids always stood to allow adults to sit, and I assume I did too, as I always offered my seat to older people as I got older.

@Obki

If some people put their child on their lap to free up a seat for someone else, then that's their choice but it shouldn't be expected.

In Britain, it's a condition of carriage that children travelling free, or half price, should give up their seat to a full fare passenger.

When my daughter was young, I'd put her on my lap. Now, she'll either stand and hold a pole, or between my knees. I've never been asked to, I just do it, without being asked.

There have been occasions where parents have had small kids on seats and I've never asked them to move, so I can sit.

Great Anglia have a 'less busy' trains finder so you can check which commuter trains are busiest. Obviously it depends on what the grandparents and children had been doing but they would have found it a lot easier to get 4 seats together with a table for their sticker books if they'd got an earlier train.

It's true that a hardened adult commuter is safer standing than young child but quite a lot of parents allow their children to run up and down the carriage.

Sod that.

If my child and I are on the bus first and get a seat each, it's staying that way.
You are not more entitled to my child's seat because you are an adult.

I'm 9 months pregnant, high risk pregnancy and have a heart issue and have had to stand on the bus on numerous occasions because adults do their best to pretend I'm not there so they don't feel obliged to offer their seats.

So no, I won't make my child stand for you.
I'm done putting myself and my children out for rude people that would likely not do the same for me.

Being older does not equal more important.

This was a reply to one of the many comments insinuating that kids should stand or sit on laps so adults can sit, it just hasn't shown the comment.

I think I would have given up my seat too considering they were quite young children.

A lot of people seem completely unaware of the actual “law” regarding train travel - it’s in the regulations and condition of carriage - it’s really clear: children must give up their seat to an adult.

“Up to two children under five years of age may travel free of charge with a passenger holding a ticket or other authority to travel. However, children under five years of age who are travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a passenger holding a ticket or appropriate authority to travel.” That’s National Rail regulations.

Not the case for TFL. Also, it only states children under 5 presumably because they can be in a pram or safely in an adult's lap.

What do you do if you have two under 5? Make a 3 or 4 year old stand while able bodied adults sit as you already have a baby/toddler on your lap?

LadyCreampuff · Today 09:38

You are not more entitled to my child's seat because you are an adult.

What if it's a condition of carriage? I mean, anyone can sit in the disabled seats on the Metro, but must give it up for someone who is entitled to it.

(I'm not suggesting that you'd do that and refuse to move!)

If it’s a condition of carriage then you’re of course welcome to go and find an employee and try to make them force a 3 year old to stand so you can sit. I think you’d struggle though.

I can just imagine the sort of person who would actually go up to the parent of a 3 year old, and telling them to move their child so they could sit down.

@Okunevo I have no idea. I was replying to PP saying children must stand up for adults. Turns out that's only for national railway and only kids under 5.

Tbh it takes a special type of person to demand a seat off a child, regardless of their age.

Yes, but the OP is on a train, not TFL.