AIBU to be a bit fed up of planning everything around a friends toddlers nap?

[Abcdef12]

So our friend has 1 DS age 19 months. We have two DDs age 2 and 6. They have made it so their child can only sleep in his cot in the pitch black silence.

I do understand everyone does their own thing… but I find it quite often frustrating. I probably feel this way because I didn’t plan anything around either of my DCs naps. They slept wherever we were.

AIBU to feel slightly fed up we can never plan a whole day somewhere because of it? I think it would be different if we lived locally or doing park trips but they live about 1 hour 30 from us so going all that way to be told at 12:30 we have to leave as he needs a nap is a bit annoying. (No one allowed in the house whilst he’s sleeping).

Maybe time to just accept right now we can’t do too much together until the time when their child stops sleeping in the day?!

That's the thing with routines - they keep coming back like clockwork.

Seriously, let them do what is right for them at the moment. This period of time does not last forever.

@Abcdef12 - can I ask why you are insisting on day trips with children for you to meet your friend? Why are you insisting on full family outings when clearly this doesn’t work for either family?

can’t you both leave your dcs at home with their other parent and you two meet for lunch or dinner?

sometimes you do need to be flexible too.

So your friend’s DC doesn’t have a regular nap time? That’s quite unusual I’d have thought, but knowing this you both make plans for you to go to hers and if the child happens to be asleep when you get there then she sends you away? That’s crazy! Why do you put up with that shit? Find other friends to do things with or just go out on your own.

Just stop bothering. I really couldn't be arsed with this.

Next time they suggest you coming over. Say thanks but no. Travelling all that way to come back at lunchtime doesn't suit us or our kids' routine. There is no reason why everyone should fit around them.

Because there is no “should” for any of it!

Families do what works for them. Not everyone can mess with a sleep routine multiple times a month and possibly deal with 2 nights of terrible mood and terrible sleep every week while having to function like normal, go to work etc.

You sounds like you’re another one who doesn’t have a single ounce of sympathy for parents of children who are terrible sleepers and you probably think your children being flexible is down to your fantastic parenting.

Oh no when I say they’ve chosen this, I know not everyone does but they really have, they told me they wanted it this way, they won’t travel in the car incase he falls asleep. There’s no problem at all with choosing a strict routine for your child but my frustration comes in the expectation from me and my children if that makes sense with zero flexibility.

Could you both leave all the kids at home and just meet the two of you for lunch?
I can see why it doesn't work for you the way it is at the moment, I wouldn't expect my kids to sit in the car for three hours for a short visit either. I would quite often time longer car journeys for visits with naptime, but mine would nap in the car. From reading other people's perspectives I think you need to let her do what she needs to do at the moment and either see her just the two of you or leave it until the DC grows out of it.

Interesting that your first is the tricky one though and your second the relaxed one. Maybe just maybe it has something to do with the parents too, and too chilled with your second who also needed to fit around an older sibling too. It’s not accident that seconds are often “easier”.

I get that there is luck, but honestly - people also make their own luck. And nobody has yet pointed out the (to me anyway) very clear connection between the fact that this child will only sleep in precise conditions and the fact that their parents are the sort of people who are unreasonably shunting you out of the house during those hours. So yes, I know some kids turn out to be neurodiverse and you realise that’s why they didn’t sleep, etc. but it really isn’t a coincidence that every single one of my friends who had a child that “just couldn’t nap anywhere else” were also anxious/precious people anyway; there was clearly a connection between that and their parenting style (and the sleep habits of their kids).

OP you are not being unreasonable. It’s totally infuriating. I have grown closer to some friends through us all having children, and have put other friendships a bit on the backburner. Interestingly, one friend I have grown much closer to is the precious type all over, but she lives close enough that we can pop in and she can have a laugh about what she sees as her silly anxiety. If she lived further away though I think we’d find it harder, as you are.

OP a phrase you keep using is that she 'expects' you to travel to her for an hour and a half and then leave. What does she say or do to to imply that she expects it?

If she genuinely puts pressure on you to do this, then yanbu to push back a bit. If it's you who wants to see her, but she will only see you on her terms, then you have to decide how much you want to see her. I understand where she's coming from, but I also see that it's not an ideal situation for you when you have a 2yo and a 6yo to drive three hours.

It’s so refreshing reading the perspectives of other parents who have similarly had to come to terms with the brutal transition to life with a baby who has very rigid sleep needs. My little guy only started sleeping through the night at 21 months. The 2 hour day nap was my sanity, to partially recover from the years of sleep deprivation. @Abcdef12 It’s totally fine to roll your eyes at her unwillingness to shift their schedule to accomodate your needs too, but I’m sure it stems from an underlying desperation around infant sleep or an anxiousness about changing what works. I like the previous suggestions of visiting them in the morning or afternoon for a play date but doing something fun just your family for lunch time. Can you have a picnic nearby or go to a new cafe or park?

@Albiboba

You sounds like you’re another one who doesn’t have a single ounce of sympathy for parents of children who are terrible sleepers and you probably think your children being flexible is down to your fantastic parenting.

You are welcome to come and visit and say this to me directly when I'm up with my baby for the fifth or sixth time tonight .

None of my children have been good sleepers. I love a good routine. I knew it was important that they napped well, for the majority of the time. But at the expense of living life and seeing the people I love? Nah.

So the expectation comes from when we try to meet the conditions come from her. So she wants to meet but won’t travel, her ds wont sleep with us in the house so we can’t see them during the nap time. So she’ll suggest we go to them and leave at nap time, or arrive after 3:30ish. Which would be fine if we lived locally, but we don’t. She won’t meet in the middle or come our way incase he sleeps in the car.

I didn’t realise this thread would go off like this- I only wanted an idea if I was being unreasonable/reasonable to be frustrated by the above 🫣

@Abcdef12 so don't take your kids on a 3 hour trip, advocate for them ad do their parents and say no.

Don't like it? Don't do it

Sorted for you 🙄

I have a difficult (just turned 2YO) sleeper who needs a nap or causes mayhem, but will only either sleep in the car or in bed in a darkened room. But I would never presume to expect someone to make such a long journey to see me and then chuck them out a couple of hours later, let alone if that person also had two young children. Different kids do need different things so I get if the kid wouldn't sleep anywhere except the cot that would be difficult, but why can't they sleep in the car on the odd occasion? It sounds like it's the parents being entirely inflexible rather than necessarily just the kid. Many children need to nap during the day until they're four, so are they just going to expect everyone to drop everything for them for two years? Sigh.
You are definitely not being unreasonable. As a PP said I'd just say the journey and only being able to be there a short time isn't really working for your kids, so let's catch up once we are both able to be a bit more flexible on meeting spots.

@Abcdef12 Why is it bad if he sleeps in the car? I mean, I get that it's frustrating if it's a 20 minute journey because it's not a long enough nap, but didn't you say it's 1.5 hours away?

To the poster who asked what happens at nursery when you have babies that sleep in the darkness in a cot - they sleep, if you’re lucky, for 30-45 minutes as opposed to 2hrs. Same as in the car or buggy. Which makes for a difficult evening/night.

now the problem is when they are in nursery 4 days a week because you work. By Friday evening it is HELL ON EARTH. And then no, you can’t ‘make exceptions’ for 1 thing over the weekend because you’ve been forced to have crap naps because of the necessity of childcare. And so the weekends are very much for catching up on sleep 😩😩.

and if it a rod for your own back etc etc then why don’t these babies just suck it up at nursery?! God I wish mine would haha.

anyway, no the OP isn’t unreasonable to expect to be allowed to say in the house at least while the kid naps. Just stick some white noise on upstairs and get on with it!!

maybe over summer you could visit and be allowed to stay in the garden at least 🙈🙈🙈

Also NB I had a friend who was like this with her child, absolutely rigid with nap time to the extent of being rude. Then when my child was born and had a (roughly) set nap time, whilst theirs was no longer napping, they totally ignored my child's need and just did what suited them, even if that meant my DC didn't get a nap or we couldn't join the plans. Didn't recognise how flexible we'd always been around them and refused to make any accommodations for us whatsoever, even though it would have been easy to do so. Sadly it could just be that your friend is a selfish person, like mine :-(

Their kid will have likely dropped the nap within the year. Just meet up then? I had a friend with a totally opposite nap schedule to us and just didn't really see them until they were a bit older and dropped the nap. Then it felt so weird that we hadn't seen each other all that time but we both knew it made sense to us at the time. Just hang on in there, in no time at all this won't even be an issue.

I get that there is luck, but honestly - people also make their own luck.

This, imo. There is surely a minority of parents with kids who need routine and where the break from routine unleashes unpleasant consequences that the parents would rather not face. I think there are far far more parents who crave a routine to help them navigate early parenthood, cling to it like limpets, and the baby responds in kind. It's fine, but it's not about the baby.

Awkward sleepers are the absolute worst.

If your DC are flexible sleepers, why don't you travel down at lunchtime (your toddler can nap in the car if they're still napping), spend the afternoon at hers once he's awake, have dinner there and then put yours in their pyjamas into the car and transfer them asleep into their beds at the other end.

Or, meet without the kids (always the best option 😁) or just leave it for a while.

YADNBU.

If it's not the kid's nap it will be something else, mark my words. Time to withdraw from this friendship and find more compatible people.

The idea of ordering friends out of the house so a toddler can nap, after those friends have driven 90 minutes for the visit, is so beyond the pale. If she approaches you again tell her that you've got a full day out planned with some other people. Maybe when the kids are school age you can resume but frankly I wouldn't bother.

You sounds like you’re another one who doesn’t have a single ounce of sympathy for parents of children who are terrible sleepers and you probably think your children being flexible is down to your fantastic parenting

My children are still terrible sleepers at 8 and 4. Dc1 only napped in the pram on the move. I walked miles in the cold and rain. Dc2 only slept on me. Both stopped napping entirely long before they turned 19 months. When dc2 was small I fell asleep standing up more than once. Currently dc2 is often still awake at 12 am, wakes screaming at 4am and then dc1 bounces out of bed noisily between 5 and 6 am.

I have sympathy for bad sleepers but I wouldn't drive my kids for an hour and a half for a brief visit for someone who wasn't willing to meet part way. My friends with rigid naps thought I was lucky that I made every toddler group, every lunch, loads of days out but when they realised just how exhausted I was, they didn't want to swap.

Yanbu! Whilst there’s nothing worse than an over tired, cranky toddler, most toddlers will nap in the pram / car / travel cot if they are tired enough and in some social situations they will just keep going , albeit in an almost unbearable way , but that’s life! I find it so boring when everything revolves around nap times! I was never like this

I understand your friend to an extent. If you have a terrible sleeper, you'll do ANYTHING you have to for sleep.

After we finally got our DD sleeping through the night at 10 months, she suddenly would only ever nap in her cot for some reason.
And any messing with the nap meant a disturbed night. And that would have a knock on effect.

We ended up being pretty strict about making sure we enabled that nap in the cot as messing it all up just wasn't worth it for an extra few hours out and about.

That said, we wouldn't have chucked visitors out of our house at nap time! But we did make sure we were home for nap time.