Dog attack: American Bulleys AGAIN (trigger warning)

[CrossBun]

(Frequent name changer, not trying to be controversial)

6 year old mauled to unconsciousness in Manchester by a pack of 5 dogs reportedly American Bully’s. Although they’re still investigating.

How many more times? How long is this going to go on for before someone does something? It seems like absolute insanity. I struggle to make sense of this as in how we can tolerate this as a civilised society. It’s so preventable.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/girl-6-mauled-pack-dogs-26570151

Well it's tough because people in this country are largely quite stupid and can't manage to control dogs of any size so perhaps they should be banned full stop. If small dogs are dangerous and out of control then they should be banned along with the larger ones, who are capable of killing people.

There, solved the problem for you.

I would have no issue with all dogs being muzzled and on leads in public. I have 2 .. both are on leads in public and one wears a muzzle. He is a very nervous reactive rescue and despite training I can't be sure he wouldn't bite in panic if approached by an out of control dog. He never has but I dont know , so I don't take the risk. I hire dog fields and have a big well fenced garden He can free run in. I know not everyone has but then you don't get a dog that needs it. I don't have space for a big fish tank so I don't have fish !

But the difference is, I think about these things and care.. the people with these dogs don't give a toss. So won't comply.. I knew of people with a male banned breed... they took it to the vet , who knew it was a banned breed and did nothing. They allowed it to breed then lied to the people they were selling puppies to as mum was not a bull type.. there are already laws regarding this dog but no one followed them anyway. And yes the police were informed, they did nothing as it hadn't attacked anyone !

I could say the similar about people who want their own children.. but I won't because I am not a cunt.

Thing is, I can have my house in the best order as a responsible dog owner - I have zero control over irresponsible dog owners, and they range from those who think it's cruel to treat a dog like a dog, right up to those who breed and use them as a weapon.
They're as much of a concern and worry to me as they are to a non dog owner.

@Windbeneathmybingowings neither a white tiger or a lion are domesticated. Dogs are. It isn't comparable.

It isn't the breed. It's the way the dog is handled. If you treat the dog with kindness, give it plenty of exercise, and show it clear boundaries, it'll generally be a good dog. I'm saying generally because there will be anomalies.

If you get a dog, treat it unkindly, don't give it the exercise it requires and don't socialise it with humans or other animals, then the chances are that you've either made a monster, or a very unstable and scared dog.

Let's face it, people can't even manage to raise their children properly now judging by the amount of behavioural disruption and violence in schools. I think people are becoming more stupid and more irresponsible and can't be trusted with dogs, or children, or anything much really.

Not from the UK so sorry if a stupid question - but don't people need to have a licence for some breeds of dogs?

I think a first step would be obligatory registration and a dog tax.

And confiscation for people who don't comply.

In my area someone has recently moved into a 2 bed council flat they have 3 fully grown bullies they are running free in the grounds where other residents kids are playing . The dogs are running at people who are passing by . Today I heard these dogs suddenly start aggressively barking and the kids that were playing started screaming, I really thought the worst . The Dogs are huge and very aggressive even with eachother. I fear it's only a matter of time .🥺

No, no license for any dog.

But there are some banned breeds. If your dog is found to be one of them, you can still keep your dog under certain conditions (muzzled and on lead in public etc).

@burgledinParis absolutely no restrictions on people owning a dog, other than it shouldn't be on the list of banned breeds - not enforceable because it can't be policed, and all dogs should be microchipped, again, not enforceable unless you own a dog that you love and would take to the vets if needed.

@burgledinParis

Prevention doesn't seem to be a priority here, highlighted by the many cases of dog attacks, usually on children or the vulnerable.

The dogs are then blamed, and everyone seems to turn a blind eye to the responsibility of the adult who owns the dog.

I know that Switzerland is quite strict :
https://www.ch.ch/en/taxes-and-finances/types-of-taxation/dog-tax/#registering-your-dog

In france certains breeds are banned

There was a thread on here where OP suggested that maybe there should be some sort of dog behaviour class in schools. OP was met with hellfire, and told that kids should be entitled to climb over all and every dog with no fear of being bitten.
Is funny, as such classes exist and work in other countries.

@burgledinParis Switzerland, and many other European countries make our animal welfare laws look puerile.

They are not only doing it for the safety of humans, they are also doing it because they see a dog as a sentient creature, which it most certainly is, and needs to be given an acceptable level of living.

We have the RSPCA in the UK. They generally aren't interested unless the animal in question is close to death.

I do agree that it's more treatment than breed that defines behaviour, but, size, strength, bite and breeding history are all relevant.

Badly treating a tea cup Yorkie is not going to have the same potential concequences as doing it to an XL Bully. Size and strength are a huge consideration as to what the dog is capable of.

But so is breeding, we breed traits in and out of dogs (and horses, cats, sheep, cattle) to what is desirable. Unfortunately in the case of bull dogs, part of the desired trait was enough aggression to take on an animal many times it's size without hesitation and latterly the aggressive behaviour that is sought in dogs used as ego penis extensions. The aggression has been, and continues to be, bred into these dogs.

It doesn't just happen with temperament either, look at the dogs who've had basically, deformaties bred into them that cause physical issues because it's seen as a desirable trait of the breed.

95% yanbu but every time it happens it’s awful, and nothing changes

@XenoBitch and there lies the issue with 'bad dogs'. It isn't the dog that is bad, it's the human owner who has let them down.

Look at the comments on this thread.

Honestly I'm not a fan of dogs at all - I have very mild cerebral palsy, but enough to make my balance precarious, as an adult at least once a year I fall over in public because a dog has run or tried to run through my legs or just run up to me and knock me off balance - when I was a child it was way worse - add that to the fact that living in a city multiple times a year I end up with dog shit on my shoes.

That said, I have nothing against dog owners - but I really think that all dog owners should be made to register and microchip and that whatever the dog from Poodle to Great Danes it should be obligatory to hold civil insurance and attend a course before being able to buy a dog.

I also think a lot more breeds should be banned.

XL bullies are fucking enormous and incredibly powerful animals. Met a 6month old one being ‘walked’ a while back. Tiny woman being dragged along by the dog. Absolutely no control whatsoever - she thought she was is control since she was holding the other end of the lead, but the reality was there was nothing that would have stopped that dog going or doing whatever the fuck it wanted to.

if you own an animal that needs 4 or more adult men to restrain it, you may as well be walking a fucking lion or tiger - because the idea that you have ANY control over it is just deluded. That animal is in charge, it is top of the food chain in the UK, and anyone that thinks they are in control of an animal like that is a fool. You are only in control as long as the animal chooses to allow it. The moment it decides that it doesn’t need to listen to you, realises you can’t Mosley it do anything or stop it from doing what it wants…game over.

I remember that thread, and as always happens on MN, especially with dogs, there were very polarised opinions.
In one respect people are right by saying they shouldn't have to learn dog behaviour if they have no interest in dogs because if they're not approaching them then they shouldn't need any knowledge as the owners should be keeping the dogs under control and away from others that don't invite it.
But the other side to that coin is ensuring that if you do allow your children to approach and interact with dogs (and it should be a given that this is done with permission) then you have a responsibility to understand yourself and teach your children about dog behaviour and body language. And that's especially important when you own one with children.

There's fault on both sides.

Add to that the inherent fighting and territorial nature of the breed and…well…the sheer number of cases of fatalities since they arrived here speaks for itself.

They are NOT suitable as a domestic pet.

I’m happy to keep dc away from random dogs and would love if favour is returned.

So bring back dog licences and that money will pay for dog “wardens “ with more powers. If you don’t have a licence dog removed and banned from getting another dog .

I see learning dog behaviour (or more learning how to act around dogs) as similar to having to look both ways when crossing the road.
Basics should be not to approach strange dogs, and always ask the owner before petting them. Is not dissimilar to things like not talking to strangers etc.
Thankfully, most kids ask to pet my dog (which is both responsible and adorable).

It’s frustrating, same things said. Nothing changes then another young child is mauled and / or killed

We should do better to protect them