To be glad the Guardian have stopped describing the school shooter as a woman?

[Greatly]

They headlined with the shooter being a woman yesterday.

Today of course we learn the shooter is transgender.

They would have known this yesterday.

It’s all too early. Just have some respect.

Absolutely agree with you

But this isn’t relevant to my comment, because I was responding to the poster who said the testosterone hormones they were taking as part of transitioning may have caused the aggression that resulted in the shooting.

To be fair (and I think I speak for a few here) we don't believe this individual biologically was a man at all. Because that's daft.

We are drawing attention to the enormous discrepancy that when a biological male commits a crime as a woman, they're a woman and the crime is recorded as such.

So is this individual as a biological female committed a crime with male pronouns they absolutely are a man.

Yes, I was clear in my post that I was aware of the inconsistencies and the reason behind them. The ultimate goal from right wing establishments is the oppression of women both biological and identifying-as. If they can blame a woman, they will, and they'll throw in trans for good measure while doing so even if it renders their reporting utterly nonsensical.

I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with mine. There are a lot of different people with a lot of different views online. Transactivists aren't a hive mind. The ones I follow are just as sick about the loss of innocent lives as most of us are. The ones celebrating the murders of children and school staff are reprehensible and probably psychopathic.

I read that story this morning and the article most definitely said "trans woman", which I assumed meant a man identifying as a woman. I can remember thinking you can put on a dress but you still have male aggression - and by the comments section, so did everyone else that read that article.

It just seems so unlikely and far fetched, doesn't it? That someone may have felt morally justified to shoot children and teachers because they were propelled by a Transgender ideology which called for retribution?

But, if that is what has happened, then this merry pronoun dance, may be absolutely central to understanding how this happened and concerns about if it could happen again. And clarity about motive shouldn't be obfuscated in the media.

Why? Joe Biden’s first public reaction was to make a joke about ice cream. Why should people in the UK care about this more than America’s do? It’s sad for the families, but there’s nothing I can do about it, this is the price Americans are willing to pay in order to own guns.

I agree - and the same should apply to MALE offenders.

They are men who identify as rapists, murderers. They should be referred to as such, and however they feel about their "gender" is immaterial. Their gender expression is only of importance if they have used it to gain entry to somewhere which is a woman-only space, or are using it to gain entry to woman-only prisons, or to receive a lesser sentence. (I've lost count of the the thugs and rapists and abusers who suddenly claim to be "trans", and that the "struggle with their identity" has made them commit rape/ beat their wife to a pulp/ smash in the face of a stranger.)

And we aren't even out of March.

I do get the furore over gender/ID/biological sex/trans/not trans/woman/not woman debate which is going on (as it rightly should) at the moment but ... and I'm sure pp's have said this (sorry haven't read every post) ... isn't the most important thing here that it is a tragedy for all concerned?

I struggle to find anything in this horrible event to feel 'glad' about 😔least of all the reporting.

Jesus, 100% this. Why the hell have people latched onto this as an excuse to start a gender-war topic. Who cares, whether this murderer was male or female or halfway in between? It's so far off focus it deserves a comment like Roots has said.

the title of the thread, and thus the topic of this thread is around the reporting of the sex/gender of the shooter. Want to start a commiseration or in memoriam thread? have at it.

This is important (moreso because of the Trans Vengeance thing which had completely passed me by) because again and again we are hearing that the numbers of crimes that have previously been nearly always committed by men, are now being increasingly committed by women. Rape and violence, mostly. But a cursory look at photos of the perpetrator, or a quick skim read of accompanying articles, show more often than not, these are trans women. Men, in other words. So it's not necessarily the case that we need to target attempts to cut down the number of rapes/violent crimes, or increase prosecutions at women - we still need to target these things at men.

Reporting plays a part here. In this particular case, for eg, it would be interesting to know if this transition from young woman to young man is social, if there is more to it. Are they getting illegal testosterone from one of the TRAs who are gathering unused hormones from the trans community, to pass them - free and illegally - to minors who contact them. If this woman/trans man was taking testosterone, did that play any part in this. etc etc.

But as to mass shootings, in particular at schools, in the US? i am immune to them pretty much - in that i don't read the articles about the victims and their families - because i have cried enough over them in the past. It's like a circle of grief. In the centre you have the victim, next ring is their family, next ring out is their wider family, next is their friends etc etc. We, in the UK (unless we know any of the people involved, or have a connection to the school, town, state etc) are so far in the outer rings that we can look at the other aspects of this crime, to try to make it make sense to us. It doesn't make us callous or uncaring. This event is far away in a country over which we have no influence. Crying and rending our clothes does nothing to help the victims or their poor families.

@Greatly you going to come back and take back in your super goady thread?

IF this reported manifesto is about this act being an act of vengeance with regard to trans rights and recent legislation then this conversation is absolutely central and timely.
The authorities dealing with this must realise how incendiary this could be.
There's no point at all putting this down to 'evil' - it's not a random act by an unknown agent, this is a human act done quite deliberately. Plus millions of easily obtainable guns.

I am so confused by this. I wondered if it was a clip taken out of context.

Yes it absolutely does matter.

There is another thread I'm posting on in feminism section where Ive talked about reasons why it's happened.

There's two key features about school shootings in the US. The first is the obvious availability of guns and the subsequent conversation about gun control. In the UK we absolutely think the US needs to tackle this. The second is that almost all these shootings have a pattern of individuals who are alienated from society, have some sort of grievance and are generally loners / outsiders. And many many of these have mental health related issues. We should be asking what drives this phenomena and how do we spot individuals who are at risk of falling through the cracks.

The trans rhetoric tends to appeal to outsiders / loners etc so immediately that puts a question about whether we will see over representation in school shootings over time. Real questions need to be asked on this.

We have the likes of both Stonewall and Mermaids, who in the UK, have pushed family and friend alienation in an active way too. US groups and online are definitely doing the same.

The much pushed Stonewall survey itself highlighted an abnormally high level of self reported disability and poor mental health. So much so, it screams there is an unaddressed issue. Yet this is something that's deemed politically incorrect to directly address because of fears of 'conversion therapy'. I do think there's a real danger that leaves trans people especially vulnerable and political narratives in this way to disengage and demonise are potentially driving even more harms which we aren't currently documenting / addressing. This really isn't in the interests of those who are trans. That's a problem at society level.

I think over time we will start to see this play out more often in various guides unfortunately.

Over representation is the key point here. Are we seeing over representation? Are we likely to see a pattern developing? Has violence in this community been promoted?

We should be asking the right questions at this point. Not passing judgement. And being open to difficult discussions.

I'm not sure the Democrats in the US are ready for that. I'm not convinced we are fully ready for it in the UK (but are better placed than the US). Precisely because of political bias rather than looking at patterns of what has actually happened to remove political bias.

You cants do that if you aren't transparent and deliberately obscure reality due to political or ideological belief. Which is precisely why we should be absolutely clear about material reality on stuff like sex and gender identity - to either prove or disprove a point beyond doubt. We can't do either with all these deliberate attempt to obscure reality...

This is important (moreso because of the Trans Vengeance thing which had completely passed me by)

1st April is apparently Trans Vengeance day, so I guess we should expect a lot more of this.

The shooter was a mentally fucked individual
Now they are a murderer.

"Respect" is what is, and always has been, missing from the trans issue.

The TRAs have no respect for anyone. They won't debate because they know they have no arguement. They rely on violence and terror to carry their cause forward.

So many gender critical people have said - "Meet me on X tv show/ at Y university debating society/ in Z studio, and I will listen you your argument, and you can listen to mine. We'll do it in front of an audience who can then decide for themselves which of us they feel is right."

Invitation after invitation has been proffered. Some have even been accepted. As far as I am aware, no debate has ever taken place. Something always happens to stop the trans-side from turning up. Or they manage to get the whole thing cancelled.

Well - this is where bully-boy tactics end; In a place where children are being murdered for imaginary "vengeance".

The mother said she'd lost her daughter . Nuff said

Christ I've just watched that Biden clip it's so ludicrous it feels like it can't be real? Surely?

Doesn’t look like it from the clips I’ve seen, he was called to a press conference to speak about it and thought he’d start out with a warm up routine.