To be glad the Guardian have stopped describing the school shooter as a woman?

[Greatly]

They headlined with the shooter being a woman yesterday.

Today of course we learn the shooter is transgender.

They would have known this yesterday.

Except they aren’t being reported as a woman. They were initially reported as a woman because the police initially said they were a woman because they look like a woman and are named Audrey. Then, the police clarified and media outlets changed their reports. So, this biologically female person committed murder and is not being reported as a woman, hence the OP. It’s completely incorrect to claim “when women who think they are men commit crimes, they are reported as women”.

We don't know if Hale was on testosterone at this point. But we do know that artificial testosterone that increases testosterone above normal levels, can massively increase aggression. (I'm not referring to men and women who take artificial testosterone due to deficiency, to bring them to normal levels.)

I made the same mistake as initially bbc or sky said transwoman not transman but then said female- terrible reporting and shows the need for clear language- there are men, women, transmen and transwomen. Muddying the waters with ID as a man female just confuses it. Sex based language with gender descriptions ie transwoman tells you what sex the person is as well as their gender

Except they aren’t being reported as a woman. They were initially reported as a woman because the police initially said they were a woman because they look like a woman and are named Audrey. Then, the police clarified and media outlets changed their reports. So, this biologically female person committed murder and is not being reported as a woman, hence the OP. It’s completely incorrect to claim “when women who think they are men commit crimes, they are reported as women”*

I agree but hey let the outraged have their moments of outrage…..

I don’t believe the police didn’t know she was trans early on. I don’t think it was a mistake I think it was Nashville - which is fairly conservative.

Audrey don’t look particularly female from the coverage of the event, she could be a teenage boy.

Yep. In America they view our NHS as a ‘socialist’ institution and hold it up as a perfect example of why they don’t want or need universal health care. More and more, the are exerting their own influence over it, enabled by a Tory government intent on ‘reforming’ it out of existence.

@PuttingDownRoots

Or we could concentrate more on the tragedy that three 9yos didn't go home last night, plus three staff members.

Jesus, 100% this. Why the hell have people latched onto this as an excuse to start a gender-war topic. Who cares, whether this murderer was male or female or halfway in between? It's so far off focus it deserves a comment like Roots has said.

Then maybe trans activists should have a look at the coverage of this tragedy to remind themselves what violence actually looks like.

You should not be giving the shooter the satisfaction of trying to have a balanced discussion around this issue.
I promise you nobody in Nashville cares about what pronouns they used or what they identified as.
I know one of the victims families, they care that 3 teenage boys have lost their baby sister forever.
Please stop using this evil act as a springboard for your opinions, we are a community in deep mourning and everyone's focus should be on the families and friends of the victims not the evil that perpetrated this.

To be fair, this has been reported on in exactly the same way by some news outlets - some were suggesting that she had detransitioned IRL but was still using different pronouns on social media.

I dont think it matters if it was a male or female, humans lost their lives, as PP's have said. these children who died and whose parents, mothers, brothers etc died are not going home.

again , media putting more attention on what the shooter identifies as really is the last thing they should be doing. perhaps thats why they didnt specify in the news.

It matters because their trans identity appears to have been their motivation. Knowing a killer's motivation is actually extremely important because it's how society learns to recognise signs that may help them prevent further tragedies.

I’m sorry to hear it. You don’t think the perpetrator’s family is in mourning for the child they thought they knew?

Airbrushing the event as “evil” without any reference to the wider society in which the crime was committed, the gun laws that made it possible, the mental state of the perpetrator - is deeply simplistic.

a million percent agree ! Its sickening people are discussing the evil person who did this, rather than giving respect and dignity to the families who have suffered a huge loss in their families. makes me so angry people arguing over pronouns of this person

I think the only relevant point about the transgender issue is the reported testosterone therapy and whether it contributed to state of mind. I think even that’s a stretch, given that she was a former student at the school. Unless/until there’s more information as to the relevance of sex/gender, as the investigation continues, discussion only detracts from the tragedy and wider issues surrounding gun control.

The shooter is a woman!

Oh, of course it matters. The only reason why we are hearing about this shooting in a school over all the other shootings which happen week in and out in America is because this is a man-bites-dog event for a woman to commit this kind of offence.

The shooter WAS a woman.

A transman is a woman.

What the Guardian should be doing is describing transwomen as men.

I've seen a lot of discussion regarding the shooter's pronouns etc as if it's disrespectful to the shooter for getting it wrong.

Many people do think this. They think that "misgendering" and "dead naming" are "literal violence".

You know what is disrespectful? Killing people.

You know what is literal violence? Killing people.

News reports suggest she hadn’t transitioned.

If she had declared herself male, then she had transitioned. Men with full gentilia are apparently women because they declare themselves to be. This means that women who declare themselves to be men, are men.

but if it was a trans woman rather than a trans man she would be identified as a woman not a man. You can't have these things both ways. I wait with bated breath for the next trans woman rapist to be referred to as a man...

This. ⬆

My heart ached for those who have been murdered, and fr their families.

My heart aches for the shooter's family.

The whole thing is horrific.

Are people missing the fact that major US trans orgs called openly for Trans Vengance and then this happened?

The politics of this is key to why it happened. Children are dead because online activists have convinced mentally vulnerable people that they are under threat and now one of them has lashed out in real life.

How is this any different to right wing shooters, Islamic terrorism or any ideologically driven act of violence.

It isn’t.

So society will accept this behaviour because they are trans? ... it feels like the motive behind this is given a pass because they are trans ? its no different from a male or female (neither trans) with mental health issues who go and do these things. it doesnt matter what they identify as , its mental health not their pronoun that did this. mental health signs should be looked for

Please stop using this evil act as a springboard for your opinions
How is anything going to be learned if no one is allowed to express an opinion? Keep sticking your head in the sand and these mass killings of innocent children will never end.

Forensic psychologists and criminal profilers should just resign then?

A major US trans organisation has been calling for Trans Vengeance due to the passing of House Bill 1 in Tennessee. There have been calls online by trans activists to say that if trans kids aren't 'safe' your kids aren't safe. A trans identifying person in Tennessee shot of an elementary school, murdering 3 children, and has left behind a detailed manifesto. I don't know what's in the manifesto, but it's being implied that those are linked. If that is true, do you really think that's unimportant or just boils down to a 'mental health' issue no different to non-trans mental health issues? Because it fucking well doesn't.

I think it’s way too early to be trying to instil any kind of sympathy or empathy towards the killers’ mental state. I do get where you’re coming from. Her family will be grieving too, but it has to be said that all Americans are a product of their environment, and not everyone who has problems with their mental state shoots their way into a school and guns children down. And if they had close contact with her, surely her family must have had their concerns - if so, why didn’t they act on them ? There have been many, many school shooting tragedies, and each one has provided an opportunity for gun law reform. Nothing has changed, so you have to accept the status quo. I’m sure all of these issues will come out in time as the investigation continues, but now isn’t the time.