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Original poster

To be glad the Guardian have stopped describing the school shooter as a woman?

265 replies

Greatly · 28/03/2023 10:48

They headlined with the shooter being a woman yesterday.

Today of course we learn the shooter is transgender.

They would have known this yesterday.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Blossomtoes · 28/03/2023 12:14

Don’t tell me what the question is @Brefugee. My response was to another poster and it was that “identifying as” is essentially pretence.

TheEliminator · 28/03/2023 12:14

She has XX chromosomes. She’s a woman.

FourTeaFallOut · 28/03/2023 12:15

MissGroves · 28/03/2023 12:11

Why does this awful tragedy have to be turned into an issue with gender? People have lost their lives, loved ones and other seem to only see the tragedy as another area to battle about gender issues (uninformed people at that!) turning it all about themselves.

A little respect people. I can see why this site gets the rep it does.

Could you point me to the other 130 threads this year where there has been other mass shootings in the USA?

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 12:15

sorry if i misunderstood @Blossomtoes
but that is what we are discussing here: reporting of gender in the media

ItsMeAgainYesHowDidYouGuess2 · 28/03/2023 12:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2023 12:17

FourTeaFallOut · 28/03/2023 10:55

What you need to know is that, in the media, when a man declares himself to be a woman - then he is a woman. And when women declare herself to be a man - they are still a woman. This is abjection. Men get to have a sex class that excludes men who won't acquiesce to gender norms and also excludes the women who come knocking on their door.

Thus, whenever a transgender person commits a crime - regardless of their sex - it is always a woman's crime.

Rules 1 & 8 of misogyny.

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  2. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Owen Jones embodies why the Guardian are Kings of Misogyny.

YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer · 28/03/2023 12:18

Coffeellama · 28/03/2023 11:04

Sky news say she ‘identified as transgender’ which is over confusing. She had not gone through the process of becoming transgender legally or biologically by the looks of it, but she identified as male on social media. Why not just put ‘identified as male’? Asides from the gender row though. This shooter was female, targeting an all female school that she had attended.

It's not an all female school. One of the children killed was a boy

Markasread · 28/03/2023 12:18

FourTeaFallOut · 28/03/2023 10:55

What you need to know is that, in the media, when a man declares himself to be a woman - then he is a woman. And when women declare herself to be a man - they are still a woman. This is abjection. Men get to have a sex class that excludes men who won't acquiesce to gender norms and also excludes the women who come knocking on their door.

Thus, whenever a transgender person commits a crime - regardless of their sex - it is always a woman's crime.

So you think she should have been described as a man?

SashaPearce · 28/03/2023 12:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Right because cisgender men never ever commit rapes or school shootings

Rowthe · 28/03/2023 12:19

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 12:14

My God. This is breathtaking. So callous.

And disingenuous. You're not treating it as just something that happens: you're gleefully grabbing on to an opportunity to disparage trans people.

bollocks i am. It is hugely tragic and devastation. It is the 89th event this year. 88 of them went by pretty much unnoticed. Unremarked. Once Sandy Hook happened and the US (in general, i am aware that individuals there have different ideas) is not prepared to change their batshit gun laws to stop it. So in that respect i will treat it as yet another shooting, yet another completely preventable set of individual tragedies that i am not going to focus on because i'd go mad. 89 of them. We haven't had 89 days yet this year i think.

And again since you don't appear to have grasped the actual conversation: it is about consistent reporting of the gender of people in press reports. That is important.

As it happens i have a lot of sympathy and empathy for trans people. I do want the press to be consistent though

I've just checked online.

At least 89 mass shootings in 2023.

That's not just a shooting. But a mass shooting.

Absolutely shocking.

ProbablyDogNappersHunX · 28/03/2023 12:21

YABVU for trying to score political points when children have been murdered.

Show a bit of respect.

FourTeaFallOut · 28/03/2023 12:21

NY Times has it at 130.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/mass-shootings-2023.html

I suppose there must be some wooliness about what constitutes a mass.

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 12:21

it is shocking. It is actually too shocking for me to take in most of the time so i nearly never read articles about it. Especially school shootings.

I have seen a GSW, it is not lovely.

But. What attracted my attention was the first report i heard yesterday because it said "she" so i was vaguely interested because this isn't the kind of crime usually (but sometimes) committed by a woman.

Boudicasbeard · 28/03/2023 12:22

And this is what self-id means.

She identified as male and is therefore ‘he’ if that is what was chosen by that person.

This is a brilliant illustration of why self-id is categorically confusing and deeply unhelpful for legal purposes.

Also remember that you could be prosecuted for a hate crime in Scotland for misgendering this person.

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 12:22

I suppose there must be some wooliness about what constitutes a mass.

i think the 89 is relating to school related incidents.

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 12:23

YABVU for trying to score political points when children have been murdered.

have you ever heard of the NRA?

PedroPascal · 28/03/2023 12:24

So she used male pronouns on one site, that makes her a man? I better rethink my username.

The fact that she looked female, had a female body/chromosomes/hormones, had a female name, and the police thought she was a female when they attended, apparently means nothing because online she used he/him... Don't you see how mad that is? Male and female is not an ethereal concept to be changed and discarded at will. It's a biological fact, and it matters.

Anyway RIP to those dead in this horrible event. Those poor babies.

Mirabai · 28/03/2023 12:24

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 11:56

Get yourself better informed and try again.

the first report i heard said "women" and i was surprised because it is hugely rare. It actually didn't cross my mind that it might be a transwoman.

Then i read an article this morning saying that the shooter was indeed a biological woman but went under a male name and used he/him pronouns.

Convention, if reports of trans prisoners etc are a benchmark (hint: they are) is that the shooter be referred to as a man.

If we are now going to use biological sex, that is fine but it must be done consistently. Or we can use the words trans man and trans woman. That would confuse some people who aren't clear what the biological sex of a trans man is. (for eg)

HTH

This.

LadyWindermeresOnlyFans · 28/03/2023 12:26

@Brefugee oh, I've grasped exactly what this thread is all about. It's crystal clear.

Horrible.

Brefugee · 28/03/2023 12:26

well, Q@PedroPascal where do you stand on the reporting about Isla Bryson? because she is described as a woman (sometimes a trans woman because she's not one of the stunning and brave ones, after all)

But she was born male.

Boudicasbeard · 28/03/2023 12:26

It is not political point scoring.

The shooter wrote a manifesto in which they said it was ‘trans vengeance’ They have taken up the call put out by the Trans Rights Network for a day of Trans Vengance.

This is a movement on violent extremists that is self selecting people who enjoy violence. There is no such thing as ‘no true trans’ under the tenets of self id. Everyone who says they are trans is trans. That’s the whole point of no gate keeping.

Mirabai · 28/03/2023 12:27

8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Yes. So if a man says he’s a woman he’s a woman. If a woman says she’s a man she’s not.

FourTeaFallOut · 28/03/2023 12:29

Trans Vengeance? W.T.F?

SpidersAreShitheads · 28/03/2023 12:29

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2023 12:17

Rules 1 & 8 of misogyny.

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  2. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Owen Jones embodies why the Guardian are Kings of Misogyny.

Show quote history

I completely agree @RedToothBrush and @FourTeaFallOut - I said exactly this on the thread that got deleted last night.

Trans women are reported in the media as "she/her" and as a woman, and their new adopted, female name is used.

This individual was a trans man, living using a male name (Aiden) and using he/him pronouns. However, everywhere it was being reported as she/her/female and with her birth name of Audrey.

I don't believe in gender ideology whatsoever - but at the very least, be consistent. At the moment, quite literally all crimes that occur by trans individuals is falling down on women.

And of course, it's perfectly possible to notice how this is being reported and to be annoyed about the misogyny and double standards, while simultaneously being horrified that there's yet another school shooting in the US.

I don't know what it will take for the US to agree to reform their gun control laws. And when I saw reform, I mean radically reform. How many more children are going to have to die before someone says enough?! Utterly tragic.

Mixkle · 28/03/2023 12:29

FourTeaFallOut · 28/03/2023 10:55

What you need to know is that, in the media, when a man declares himself to be a woman - then he is a woman. And when women declare herself to be a man - they are still a woman. This is abjection. Men get to have a sex class that excludes men who won't acquiesce to gender norms and also excludes the women who come knocking on their door.

Thus, whenever a transgender person commits a crime - regardless of their sex - it is always a woman's crime.

This. 😐