Lack of independence in some adults

[Violaviolin]

I am always amazed that some adults seem completely incapable of independence. The last week or so has shown up so many things.

1. A friend saying her husband puts petrol in the car for her as she 'wouldn't know what to do.' She's been driving for over 10 years.

1. A different friend saying there's 'no way she could fly by herself.' She's 36.

1. Friends/family constantly having to check what partners are doing before agreeing to meet (not a childcare situation).

1. Colleagues saying they can't drive to x and asking for a lift (miles out of my way) despite the fact they can drive and have a car. I'm nervous driving in cities but you just have to get on with it don't you.

1. People who say they couldn't live by themselves.

AIBU that too many people lack independence?

I had to learn to do a lot of things for myself when I divorced. Some of those things I got used to like putting fuel in the car and driving within the local area. I will still only drive long distances at the weekend because I don’t like lorries and I don’t like to be in any situation where I have to trust other road users….I like full control of my car at all times. I flew once on my own in my twenties and I was so scared that I wet myself.

I was probably an extreme case because I’m autistic and only realised at the age of 42. But you remind me of my ex husband in that you don’t understand what it’s like to be so anxious about doing something alone that you can’t function. I would love to be more like you but my body reacts automatically.

My SIL has this learned helplessness, and always gets someone else to do things for her. When she needed her driving licence renewing recently, she was told (I can't remember who by) to just do it online. "Oh no, I'll get my son to do it". The son actually said "mam, you need to get out of your comfort zone sometimes", and she was extremely offended.

If I had been there I would have shown her how to do it.

She now complains that she is lonely because whenever anyone visits her she asks them to do things for her that she is perfectly capable of doing herself, so she gets fewer visitors now.

What's the obsession with bins on MN ?
it's really not a job! You just wheel it to the right place once a week or whatever. It's 2 minutes tops. In our house it goes a bit like this...
Have you put the bin out or shall I do it?
I put it out this afternoon.
....
That's it! Whoever thinks about it does it.
It's really not a thing

You wheel it to the right place once a week? You don't put anything in it? You don't have 4 different bins and need to sort everything into those 4 bins? You don't need to clean them?

Do you have a magical bin that just takes trips to the kerb once a week with no other input from anyone?

As a guy agree that men often get encouraged to drive - at my school all the boys started driving lessons as soon as they could and it was socially v difficult to opt out of the process even though I was nervous of cars from outset. I had a really rocky start to driving - while learning I crashed my step mother's car (in an accident that was 100% my fault) and had driving lessons for a year before the instructor would let me take the test (and after I passed he said he was certain I would fail). Having passed my stepmother would not let me drive her (repaired) car saying that the test instructor had his opinion of my driving and she would stick with hers. So I did not have a car for about five years and developed a real fear of driving such that I thought I might never drive again. Eventually I got a car, took some refresher lessons (instructor said I should never have passed my test) and one of the most satisfying things of my life was sticking with it for the next 30 years (accident free) and doing some seriously long journeys (I have driven London to Scotland alone several times). If one finds something really difficult and scary, the mental reward for getting even moderately good at it over time can be huge.

yeah, around here bins are an endless task. And yes, DH absolutely has to do it becuyase I do all the cooking and most of the post-dinner tidying up and quite frankly, that more than trumps his 10 minutes a day on bins (he does actually do plenty overall, but bins is one of the few tasks he takes on 100% and that he absolutely has to do and that can't just be ignored or delayed like with other tasks he might do side eyes the bedding that needs changing)

Um no, I read it just fine thanks.

Maybe you need to go back and re-read it yourself?

We put rubbish in it on a daily basis. General stuff goes in the kitchen bin. When that's full someone puts it in the outside bin.
Recycling goes in the recycle bin outside on a daily basis. As a box or whatever is empty or a bottle etc it goes in the bin outside.
Garden stuff goes in the garden bin as the grass is cut.
I'm cooking at the min as I'm typing. I'm using something in a plastic box. When I've used the food in the box I will put it in the right bin
I don't understand what I'm doing that others are not doing.
I'm not saying we never dispute who does what housework but the bin is a non issue

You said the only thing to do with a bin is to put it out once a week. That's obviously not true, which you appear to know.
So that was a rather silly think for you to say.

@Cosyblankets I wouldnt' say bins are a huge issue, but they do take time.

Inside, all recycling is added to one bin (except food recycling which goes in a caddy). At least once a day (it's a bit frightening how quickly it builds up), DH goes outside and separates the contents of the inside bin into the various bins we have for different types of recycling - glass, paper, plastic etc. This is not a big job but does take a few minutes at least.

On bin day, he then moves all the bins from the side of the house to the front. Again, not a big job, but does involve a bit of fiddling about and careful movements as there's not a lot of space to get out etc so it's not a 10 second job either. and it's irritating. He then brings them all back a bit later. Now and again he cleans them out or gets onto the council to order a new one.

It's not a massive job, I agree. And definitely less effort than the endless cooking and shopping I seem to do. But it is more than just throwing a glass bottle in a bin after I've finished the wine!

Agreed.

I'm really independent. I got ran my home, finances, cars, kids, bins etc when I was married and continued to do it when I got divorced. My partner now - of ten years - is capable but I still generally run things, he wouldn't know how much the utility direct debit is or which company the car insurance is with, I know more about car maintenance and am the one who drives when we go away.

But.

Behind closed doors I'm quite submissive and this does go into some of the day to day interactions at home. Part of liking playing a more submissive woman role in the relationship is because technically I know I'm not. At all!

Our bin has to be wheeled down a load of steps so deffo a man’s job here!

No it’s not, you just notice it more when it’s women. Plenty of men claim they can’t work a washing machine, cook or parent their own children.

You are entitled to your opinion.
However, it seems that you haven't grasped the reasons why some adults live, either through choice or not, in a different way to the one you deem appropriate.

I might deduce from this that you possibly prioritised becoming what you call a "competent adult" above other things, and therefore didn't develop, either by choice or by nature, a deeper understanding of other people.

Society has evolved so we aren't completely independent one from another. The fact that some people are in a position where they feel they have to know how to do "everything" is neither positive nor negative, rather a side effect of not having, or not wishing to have people they can rely on around them.

Are you saying that being completely self sufficient is the only way to live? Is the aim to always have money which can be exchanged for services the top tier, or is being independently competent in every single field more worthy?

Looking down on others, who for whatever reason live differently to you, and then accusing them of not adapting to the way of life you presume to be superior, is really tiresome.
Your "lifestyle" is of equal value to anyone else's, not more. If a woman wants to live as a 1950's housewife she is in no way less than you, or is she responsible for the "struggle" in society.

Individualism is not seen as the perfect way to live in many countries, but it's not about being right or wrong, it's about respecting other people's choices.

Behind closed doors I'm quite submissive and this does go into some of the day to day interactions at home. Part of liking playing a more submissive woman role in the relationship

sexist, offensive bullshit.

@SavBlancTonight we don't bother with an inside bin for recycling, we just put it in the outside one straight away so it doesn't build up.
General rubbish is in a bag that we just lift out and put in outside bin.

I was about 37 when I moved in with my husband, I’d have had a pretty limited life if I couldn’t manage basic tasks on my own. The one thing I can think of where I thought “I wouldn’t have been able to do that” was a couple of years ago on holiday, when we stayed in a place with the steepest hills and sharpest hairpin bends I’ve ever seen. I definitely would have beached and bumped a couple of times if I’d had to drive. But I would have done it. Just quite possibly with a lot of hyperventilating and a lost deposit on the hire car.

The over-thinking and over-complication of domestic chores like putting the bins out on MN always amuses me.

I would be curious to know how many of these incapable people are in long term relationships and have been from an earlier age. I was entirely single (not even a date) until my mid 30s, and so inherently I am sure I was more independent as I didn’t really have an option.

Now I’ve been in a relationship for 10 years and I’ve noticed there are tasks I automatically delegate to my husband and therefore have lost the confidence in doing them (eg can’t remember the last time I put air in my car tyres). The realisation has made me uneasy and I’m going to make more of an effort to get back to my old ways!

My mother is totally overwhelmed by basic things since my dad (who did all the small jobs) died. I get calls bemoaning how the lightbulb has gone in the bathroom and she needs someone to change it, or she can’t change the clock on her microwave. She won’t even try.
My sister has decided that she no longer likes driving much so these trivial jobs fall to me. It’s frustrating.
Funnily enough my parents used to scoff at me for being so independent as a child and then when I grew up.

I think the only point is why does op even care enough about what other people do or don’t do to have an opinion? I couldn’t care less if someone chooses to drive or pay bills or whatever- why would I? Because I don’t judge others.

I think it's normal and good to need each other, it's only a problem if it's affecting your quality of life or causing problems or resentment to other people. Life is give and take and some people like having companionship and their love language is doing things for each other or times spent together. It's not good for humans and communities to be too independent and solitary.
I feel good when I do something for my DH who in theory can learn to do himself but if I do it for him it gives him an easier life and it's one less skill he doesn't have to spend time to learn. When he does things for me, I love him even more for it. It shows me he cares and wants to support me if I'm nervous about something. I like being needed and I appreciate being helped out.

I wouldn’t judge individual situations but YANBU. I also hate this need to constantly tell friends and family what you’re doing every day.

Well your concern for other less independent women than yourself is admirable, and your frustration with your former mil are both valid. But it doesn’t actually help them does it, or change anything?

I am getting old now but I have arrived at the view that you help people more by accepting them for who they are.

I don’t know. I think society is made up of a mix of personalities and characters for good reason. We need the solid stay at homers just as much as we need the go out and getters and doers. Both have different skill sets and both are valuable.

YANBU, I totally agree! I grew up with my mum depending on my dad for everything, she never paid a bill or booked anything in her own name. Even now, she can do anything simple like open the car boot, change a lightbulb, never learnt to drive, the list goes on.

I know lots of people who won't drive on motorways.

Several friends (who are 'gobby' in other ways) won't ring up restaurants and taxi ranks.

My partner will always get me to get the door to a neighbour, take a parcel round, or a takeaway delivery.

I don't know what the issue is at all.