Lack of independence in some adults

[Violaviolin]

I am always amazed that some adults seem completely incapable of independence. The last week or so has shown up so many things.

1. A friend saying her husband puts petrol in the car for her as she 'wouldn't know what to do.' She's been driving for over 10 years.

1. A different friend saying there's 'no way she could fly by herself.' She's 36.

1. Friends/family constantly having to check what partners are doing before agreeing to meet (not a childcare situation).

1. Colleagues saying they can't drive to x and asking for a lift (miles out of my way) despite the fact they can drive and have a car. I'm nervous driving in cities but you just have to get on with it don't you.

1. People who say they couldn't live by themselves.

AIBU that too many people lack independence?

In fairness to men (they do all what you are saying) they never pull the "i cant drive to a place i dont know" card, i've alway been slightly fascinated as to why this seems a to be uniquely female issue.

My friend is terrified of driving and so is her boyfriend. They have about a 5 mile radius from their house that they travel to and that’s it. They’ve not once come to visit me since I moved 45 minutes away!

Surfingthewaves · Today 09:51
Why can’t you all just accept that we’re all different? Humans can be quite complex with a mixture of strengths and weaknesses, we all have different skill sets. You come across as being superior to others because you can do all the things you’ve listed. Maybe you should focus on what improvements you can make on yourself rather than judging others.

I don't agree. I think OP is making a valid point. It's often (in my case anyway) just laziness. I'm pretty independent in many ways (driving and some DIY) but I do let my other half do lots of car stuff which I'm perfectly capable of, but just shirk. Things like maintenance and checking tyre pressures and oil. I once changed a tyre myself, but that was long, long ago and I have to admit I've become 'de-skilled' in things I used to do. I'm talking about the normal (non-technically-demanding) range of tasks, it's easy to sit back and let someone else do things and then when you're suddenly called upon to manage, you find it impossible.

My mother was always very capable and independent, partly by nature, but also because she lost her husband fairly early on and had to get on with it, but my poor MIL left absolutely everything to her husband and when he died she was helpless. I mean - she had never been anywhere (doctor's, dentist's or even down to the shop/supermarket) without him for 40-odd years. We were 250 miles away, so it was a nightmare. She didn't even know how to lock up the house etc, or pay a utility bill. She had passed her driving test when young but had never driven since marriage and of course couldn't just take it up again.

Sometimes you have to make yourself get to grips with things - and I just mean things like life admin and knowing where the stopcock is...I realise some people will find challenging driving etc a problem.

A close friend’s husband refuses to drive in our city centre. Another refuses to drive when they’re abroad. In both cases, their wives do the driving. It’s not uniquely a female issue.

We had a new colleague join our team aged 22. She had to attend a training course that involved driving or taking the train. Her mum rang us to say it was an unreasonable request and that she wouldn't be doing it. When I think about helpless adults, this is the sort of thing that comes to mind.

Before I met my hubby I had been living abroad for 10 years, I learnt to speak English and finished my degree, I learnt to do everything myself because I had no families close by.

However since I had have been with my hubby, he took over a lot of responsibilities, ie filling up petrol, draling with bills, car maintenance etc, on the other hand I do all the shopping and cooking etc.

I dont think there is anything wrong with relying on each other for different things, we are a team. I do not need his permission to make decisions but for some decisions I would like to hear his opinions too.

I believe it's a complex societal issue. Boys, from a young age, are subtly taught that driving is dangerous and exciting and something they MUST learn. Girls less so (it's self perpetuating, of course - all those girls whose mothers don't drive much etc).

Then, when girls and boys are being taught, expectations are different. Both might be scared but the boys are expected to get on with it while girls are often allowed to be a bit more nervous and more accommodations are made for them.

And ultimately, the result is that boys learn to drive whether they're scared or not, and in the process learn to overcome those fears. And many girls don't.

Ask around your male and female friends. The kind of questions you can ask might be,
"where you scared learning to drive and did you feel you could admit it?"
"Were you encouraged to learn to drive or learn about cars from a young age?"
"When you were learning to drive, if you were nervous, what did your driving instructor do"
"Did your parents let you drive when you were a learner or did you have to wait for your lessons? AND did your parents encourage you to drive with them and not just with an instructor".
"How many lessons did it take you before you were driving fast enough to use 5th gear"
"Did you feel like learning to drive was something that was totally expected of you?"

In our family, learning to drive was considered an absolute necessity and there was no slack for any member of the family (2 girls, one boy). But I was very surprised to discover how many of my female friends' parents took a more casual approach. the boys all got their license within days of their birthdays... and certainly, that was the expectation in our house, but many of the girls took weeks or months before they got around to it. Not all, but a lot.

Laziness isn’t lacking independence, is it? if they had to, they could?
I open jars just fine on my own. If DH or DC is there, I give it to them.
I agree with a pp. Some men love doing certain things for their wives because it makes them feel good. Some women just lean in to that.

I can’t put petrol in the car but then I can’t drive it either, which I know much of MN thinks is appalling. However, I do earn most of the money, organise our lives and rarely ask DP for a lift. But if i do, y’know, I’ve carried our child for 9 months. I think he can run me into town occasionally. We live in a city with good public transport so rarely an issue.

I think there is a bit difference between ‘I can’t do that’ and ‘I don’t usually do that.’ Eg DP takes the bins out 99% of the time and I cook 99% of the time but we’re both capable of the other. Even with driving, 99% of the time there’s another way for me
to get somewhere.

A good friend of mine, however, has never paid a bill or organised a mortgage etc. She has no idea how much her and her husband have in savings. If he was suddenly not there I would really worry about her ability to cope. I loved single/alone for a good 5 years and managed fine.

Is the driving thing from a culture of cars being a hobby for men when they first learn and women less so? I can't drive so never learned but when I was 16/17 the lads all used to be tinkering with the cars every weekend and driving around like idiots whenever they could, none of the women I knew who could drive did this.

My partner only learned to drive in his 30's and is very cautious. although having to do lots of long distance driving has helped. He would say he doesn't like driving on rural roads and we sometimes change our route so there are less non dual carriageways.

🙄

A lot of people like to keep others helpless and dependent. I've seen it time and again. Parents do it to their children, and husbands do it to their wives. They take over, and keep the other person ignorant, weak and helpless so that they'll never leave. My maternal grandfather did it to my grandmother. He ran all the finances, and got the shopping, because he had abandonment issues from childhood. My father was exactly the same. He would sulk like a child if my mum went anywhere. And I've seen parents do it to adult children. My ageing mum now does it to my adult brother to stop him leaving home.

Learned female incompetence is exactly it.

The weirdest thing to me is when other people ACCEPT IT AS NORMAL. What’s that about? SIL who won’t drive. Or MIL who can’t possibly wield a paintbrush. It’s just accepted that they don’t do these things. They could if they wanted to!!!

Why does it give the rest of us a bad name? we don't all have to be clones of each other because we have the same genitals!

This. Everyone is different and people might also change throughout life.
I used to fly alone fairly frequently and loved it. Haven’t been on a plane since Covid and now I definitely feel nervous about it, but I would manage.
Lived alone for a while and realised it wasn’t my thing, so I rented a flat with a friend.
I don’t drive as it causes me huge anxiety, but I’m planning to work on it.

Find me anyone who wants to go outside in sideways rain and haul around wheelie bins. It's a hill I'm willing to die on.

Well I don't drive at all because I accept that I'm too scatty to drive and would hate it....Nothing to do with trying to be "cute/quirky".....

You seem to really analyse others and look for ways to judge them.

It doesn't affect you so what's it to you?

Well y'know some of us aren't raging feminists with a point to prove, we're just doing our best to get by in life.

Finally, the voice of reason ^ , totally agree and I would add that the desperation displayed on this thread for everyone to be like everyone else, and do everything the same, is surely a form of anxiety in itself?

Well y'know some of us aren't raging feminists with a point to prove, we're just doing our best to get by in life.

The postet you were replying to explained why it would be impractical to rely on her partner and runs the risk of leaving her unable to do things if something happens to him. Yet you interpreted this as making some theoretical point?

You can roll your eyes as much as you like but some people have a genuine phobia of the things you scoff at....

As a single mother from a small family my mother raised me to be fiercely independant around those types of things. (I'm 47.)

Not sure how to do that? Read up on it, figure it out, get it done. Nervous? Well, no choice, gotta get on with it, no one else to rely on.

“Anxious” is an odd word for it, I don’t get anxious over strangers; but yes, I do find it concerning that many women opt out of things like finances and self-transportation, and that this generally seems to be accepted and defended, when we know quite how many women are stuck in unhappy relationships or get shafted during divorce.

If somebody would prefer not to fly, that’s less of an issue, it’s not essential to do: although in the case of my former MIL, refusal to travel alone because her husband always booked the tickets, carried the suitcases, booked the early morning cab, arranged the transfers, exchanged the travel money etc has left her unable, out of fear of getting it wrong, unable to see her children and grandchildren as often as she’d like.

I do agree with you, and find it hard to understand why others allow their worlds to become so small, in some cases.

I had a partner once who had a fear of taking train or plane journey to other places - that's not inherently an issue, but it is an issue that he didn't attempt to get any help to solve the problem. I couldn't accept being in a monogamous relationship with someone who has choosing to be that limited in their life, as by extension he was going to limit me as well.

I do get anxiety sometimes about driving to new places but I push through it because I refuse to be confined to my town, that's really no way to live. Similarly, certain car maintenance tasks I had no idea how to do initially, but I get out my phone, look it up on Youtube, and then crack on - or pay someone to do it.

It's ok not to know how to do important things, but I find it hard to respect people who know that they have a knowledge gap and do nothing about it.