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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child has dropped out of grammar school and I'm panicking

228 replies

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 09:21

DD 18 stopped going to school at the beginning of this year, she's meant to be writing A levels. She got good GCSEs moved to a grammar school during the pandemic. No bullying as far as we are aware. She is very outgoing and sociable and is still bubbly on the phone to her friends.

School have been round to the house. All sorts of meetings. She just says, 'I'll try to do better' then goes right back to what it was before.

She takes antidepressants but won't see a therapist. She says 'there aren't any'. We have Bupa. I called and they said since she's over 18 she has to do it herself but she won't.

She refuses to do chores. Her room is disgusting. You have to climb over piles of clothes. I go in there to get plates once they have run out in the house. She has a bathroom to herself and it's a state too. Never cleaned and I'm not doing it. (School didn't see her room, only downstairs which is normal)

She stays in bed all day, is up all night on the phone. She goes out on weekends with her friends and comes back on Monday.

We've stopped pocket money, stopped driving lessons. She doesn't care.

I've explained all her friends will finish school and be doing things and she'll get left behind. If she decides A levels are not for her then she needs to get a job or an apprenticeship. Since she was in primary school we've gone to like 50 different 'career talk' things. (Not arranged by school, just things I've found, like a charity called Stemettes) Scientists, astronauts, artists. All sorts. To get an idea of what sort of thing she might enjoy when she finishes school.

Today I said if she just goes to school from today to the end of the year I'll pay for her to travel regardless of grades. Just to go to school. She's still in bed. Offer off the table.

She said what she wants is for us to rent her a studio apartment and then she'll go to school. I said 1. We can't afford that, 2. That's why people go to school, get qualifications so they can do that for themselves.

It's just three of us here and her step father and I have rows. I said if she wants to go and live with a school friend for a few months we will pay for her expenses there for the 3 months until school ends. She says she wants her own flat.

I'm at my wit's end. My mum came over to speak to her from another city a few months ago. No change.

Her biological dad is a deadbeat who moved back abroad when she was in nursery. He has paid nothing and has little contact with her and has a new family, including a stepdaughter her age and two new babies. I imagine that's upsetting to her as he's on social media playing happy families.

I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
PollyPut · 29/03/2023 14:53

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:32

@brassbells

Yes, I think it was definitely a shock to the system. She coasted and was a teacher's pet and then at grammar school it's a class full of Hermione Grangers and work that is difficult for the first time.

@ThatFraggle it's not necessarily that it's grammar school. But it is A levels and they are a lot harder than GCSEs and, yes, that work is a lot harder than GCSE where as you say it looks like she coasted.

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:59

Fretfulagain · 29/03/2023 14:51

No-ones know the correct course of action. There isn’t a single golden answer. It will take time effort and mistakes Ali g the way, the same as all other parenting.

my observation would be your current approach is getting your current response so maybe change it.
as for posts look at those who have had similar and have experience - listen to them.

as for those from the succession school of parenting - they seem to be talking from high horses not the grassroots of actual experience with a real teen but your choice

id bet my mortgage your DD does not want to be or like being where she is now but is probably sad, overwhelmed and exhausted.

prob don’t ask her what would help because she won’t be able to answer I do t think

the anti depressants should lift her mood enough to engage with therapy so if they aren’t doing that it maybe needs looking at but you need to build up trust

The way it feels is that we've spent months coddling her (e.g. driving her to school and back) and all it earns is entitlement. She's well enough to party, but refuses to even help unpack groceries.

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:59

PollyPut · 29/03/2023 14:53

@ThatFraggle it's not necessarily that it's grammar school. But it is A levels and they are a lot harder than GCSEs and, yes, that work is a lot harder than GCSE where as you say it looks like she coasted.

Absolutely. I think it was both.

OP posts:
PollyPut · 29/03/2023 15:07

Great that you managed to have a tidy up. That should help.

I would make it clear that all plates stay in the kitchen. Especially if she's in the house all day - that's a lot of plates very quickly.

Get her to help you with that laundry- hang/fold it together and chat.

Sounds like she needs to get out of her room more (as well as everything else). Put on some music that you can both agree on, and do chores together - unless she's actually doing homework of course.

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 15:10

PollyPut · 29/03/2023 15:07

Great that you managed to have a tidy up. That should help.

I would make it clear that all plates stay in the kitchen. Especially if she's in the house all day - that's a lot of plates very quickly.

Get her to help you with that laundry- hang/fold it together and chat.

Sounds like she needs to get out of her room more (as well as everything else). Put on some music that you can both agree on, and do chores together - unless she's actually doing homework of course.

She does not listen about the plates.

She refuses to do chores.

It feels like she watched a movie with a teen who is snarky and rude to their parents and decided that's what she'll do too. It's almost parody.

OP posts:
Fretfulagain · 29/03/2023 15:14

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:45

Yes, there have been some great suggestions and I intend on following up.

Pp had just said I'm a bad parent (not sure if it was you. I've not kept track of usernames.)

She didn't just stop going to school one day. Her absenteeism has increased to the point where attendance is now zero.

We have done so much to support her.

She said the bus route was too cold and difficult. I quit my job and have something shittier but which allows me to pick her up and drop her off.

We've been paying for her sport even all while she was going to school 2-3 days a week. But we are not paying now that she won't go to school.

She deliberately sticks chewing gum onto things. Yes I'm angry with her. Not only for things like that but for the stupidity.

I'm aware she's unhappy. I'm the one who insisted she go to the GP.

But apart from antidepressants she refuses to get help. She refuses to make the calls to book. I've tried doing it for her, but as an adult they say I can't.

I would never call anyone a bad parent. We’re all doing our best and I can see how frightened you are for her and how much you care - I don’t think any of that is in doubt

this stuff is hard and all of us facing it need help. I was unwittingly adding to my DDs anxiety because my anxiety was making me do stuff for her - and that wasn’t helping me or her past a certain point.
I know you are doing what you’re doing to make it better for her but giving up work to drive her places - maybe that made her feel pressured?

I feel for you OP - show yourself and your DD some compassion.

id send a hug but don’t want to be expelled from MN 😉

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 15:18

Thanks for the non-hug @FrFretfulagain . I'll take it.

OP posts:
Danielle9891 · 29/03/2023 15:27

Please don't take this the wrong way but maybe the 50 career talks and change of school was too much pressure for her to take.

I'm happy I'm not a teen now as there's so much more pressure now. Every time they go online they see people with perfect houses, jobs, families and bodies. It's too much especially if they have pressure from home and school on top of that.

Your daughter seems really depressed and might need to take a year off to work on her mental health instead of her career.

PollyPut · 29/03/2023 15:28

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 15:10

She does not listen about the plates.

She refuses to do chores.

It feels like she watched a movie with a teen who is snarky and rude to their parents and decided that's what she'll do too. It's almost parody.

Does everyone else eat and drink only in the kitchen? That would start by setting the right example.

Laundry is hardly a chore. More of a necessity. Unless she is buying T shirts because she doesn't want to wash the last ones?

She does sound entitled - If she refuses to go to school and work then I'd be taking her to volunteer at our local place which cooks lunches for people who need them so that she starts to get a grip on reality if she doesn't have an income stream. Hopefully she starts to think about doing some work instead.

Keep up the sport, that's something.

Remove the phone overnight. Turn off wifi overnight or consider only having wired internet which is for adults working at home if that is possible. Make sure she has the correct textbooks (ebay or library - not relying on online text books). Make sure she has a source of music which doesn't require the internet (e.g. radio) if she wants music for company.

What is the schools policy on resitting Year 13? It does sound like she's missed a lot. Did she apply for unis and if not have you taken her to see any? She might like the idea. She would have her own accommodation there!

Billybagpuss · 29/03/2023 15:54

I think you need to redefine your focus and focus on yourself for a bit.

you’re living in an unhappy relationship, you’ve changed to a less desirable job I guess most of your time is spent worrying about everything.

maybe start by looking for a job that you would prefer, there is no point doing a less desirable job to drive her to a school she will not go to, you can then start to think about your future from a financial point of view with regards your relationship.

when was the last time you did something for you? I do open water swimming now, it really does settle the brain and start to put things into perspective.

As for DD she is 18, you can’t make her go to school, I agree you can’t/shouldn’t throw her out yet but you can insist on a hygienic level of cleanliness even if it means you doing it every couple of days, you can insist she starts to look for work or sign on for benefits, if she wants more privacy in her room she takes responsibility for keeping it clean so you don’t have to. If she decides to try a house share it is her responsibility to finance it but assure her that you love her and will be here for her if she needs you but she finances it herself. As a pp said you might find that her friends going off to uni gives her a kick up the bum to do something, but you can also as a pp said suggest she takes a year to get her head in order, the only rules being she can stay but isn’t to get arsy when you insist on a clean room.

is this suggestion pandering to her? Very possibly but people won’t continue to finance her forever with parties. Give it a finite amount of time for her to decide what she wants to do and become a contributing adult but you may have to help her to find alternative accommodation at some point, but for now baby steps.

FancyFran · 29/03/2023 15:54

Op she doesn't hate you.
She's just unwell and struggling. My DD took two years to tell me she loved me.
I am exhausted for you. Even my saint of a husband had enough of our daughter, he threw ultmations around. It doesn't work on SEMH or Neuro Diverse people.
My daughter won a major scholar (she has a huge IQ). She wasn't prepared for the scrutiny or pressure that came with it. Perhaps the same has happened here?
You do need to 'give it up' or you will be ill or worse. Accept no cheek, clean the filthy room, have a few choice answers to her retorts.
If it helps mine pulled a stunt half way through her first term at uni. I read her the riot act. Said your circus and monkeys, I am done. She's fine now and top of her class. It can get better.
If you want extra support try Not Fine in School Facebook.

Iamdobby63 · 29/03/2023 16:07

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:34

@VestaTilley

Yes she has had a Saturday job.

I cleaned her room so she's starting on a fresh slate.

I have some here telling me I'm not nice enough to her, others saying too much pandering. How does one ever know the correct course of action.

No one knows, one course of action for one might not work for another. All I know for sure is that these cute babies should come with a health warning!

My son has fairly recently been diagnosed with ADHD, his room isn’t as you’ve described and he isn’t cheeky by helping himself (although my daughters did). He is up late, he can get down at times and suffers with social anxiety. He doesn’t kick off but then he is attending school yr 13, applied for Uni etc., he isn’t always organised though and fidgets non stop.

I mentioned earlier BPD, she sounds very much like my step daughter who would kick off at the drop of a hat and be very unreasonable.

Problem is that none of us here are experts and every person is different and unless your daughter wants things to improve I’m afraid there is little you can do. Unfortunately the only person who can fix her is her but you can lay down the house rules, you don’t have to just accept it.

isitshe · 29/03/2023 19:53

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:50

She refuses to say what she wants to do. She refuses to engage with anyone who asks her.

I've never said we have a happy home. But I don't know if she will be any happier with just me, who she clearly doesn't like. And being in a smaller space with her disgusting habits would be hell on my own mental health.

She probably doesn't know what she wants to do, and she doesn't need to know, or make any big decisions. It's an unnecessary pressure.
She doesn't have to finish school at this stage, especially if she has fallen quite far behind. Further/higher education college in a couple of years might be a better choice for her.
She does need to do something though. Engage with some kind of service, get a basic low-stress job, or at least start claiming jobseekers/UC.

brassbells · 29/03/2023 21:05

Has she had her 18th birthday celebration or is it still to come?

What did or what does she plan to do to celebrate 18th birthday?

If she has already had it how long ago was it?

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 23:41

brassbells · 29/03/2023 21:05

Has she had her 18th birthday celebration or is it still to come?

What did or what does she plan to do to celebrate 18th birthday?

If she has already had it how long ago was it?

We had a small celebration at home and she went out with her friends.

OP posts:
brassbells · 29/03/2023 23:52

So you know who some of her friends are?

That is good news

I am guessing you don't know their parents though.

Are these new friends from the grammar school or from her old school?

R2G · 30/03/2023 00:04

Sending love x my advice is she is 18 and I would take a step back and start focusing on yourself, the job you wanted and your own life and hobbies. Don't cook for her or do her washing, you can show her a few recipes and leave her to experiment, or can food prep stuff like chopped fruit, yoghurt, show smoothie recipes. Washing, buy her an electric dryer and a dehumidifier. She dries it in her room. I would buy a to do pad or make a sheet with a list for each day.

Plates out of room,
Wash your own clothes, plates and pots.
A load of laundry a day.
She could design more herself like Monday, dust room Tuesday change bedding.

She's 18, and she can practice this independence with you.
As for school etc. Just leave her to it. Support her when she asks you to.
If she drops out, fine, let her find her way.
Money for hair, nails, clothes, going out. No. No no. She can find her way to a part time job then if needed.
Just leave her to it and get on with your own life, put a bit of distance between you, some boundaries. You don't need to be leaving a job to take her on a bus.

MumOf2workOptions · 30/03/2023 00:07

@ThatFraggle
Phone up the mobile provider and cancel her phone!!

VerbenaGirl · 30/03/2023 08:59

Covid had a massive developmental impact on children of all ages and schools are reporting a significant increase in emotionally based school avoidance (EBSA) - frequently linked to undiagnosed ASD/ADHD/mental health conditions. Maybe pause and take a breath, it may be that A levels can be put off a year. Wrap her in care, focus on mental health but have clear limits on financial support (meet basic needs but no more).

Seeline · 30/03/2023 09:34

How long has she been on anti depressants?
Are you sure she is still taking them?

She sounds ill to me. Is there no way you can get her to the GP. I've made appointments for my 18yo. If all else fails just say you are her when you ring up.

LMA1 · 30/03/2023 18:22

There are so many other courses available at FE. A Levels are for those wanting Uni in the most part.
Your daughter has become disaffected, possibly as the A Levels weren’t the route she needed.
A vocational course is so much more hands on, a completely kinaesthetic immersive way to learn. It can lead to Uni or straight to well playing roles in industry.
Time tables for vocational courses mirror that if schools with no long breaks and ‘self directed’ study.
College will have a support hub or well-being mentors, these are excellent at providing holistic mentoring and signposting to agencies.
Its too late this year to enrol back in college, most courses are almost finished, however, she needs to find excitement in another avenues for September perhaps.
there's Beauty, Nails, Hairdressing, Drams, Cyber Security, Engineering and the list goes on.
Education is the key to unlock doors.

ThatFraggle · 30/03/2023 18:46

brassbells · 29/03/2023 23:52

So you know who some of her friends are?

That is good news

I am guessing you don't know their parents though.

Are these new friends from the grammar school or from her old school?

I've been to a couple of the friends' houses, and had a cup of tea with some mums. Nice normal people. But I don't know all the friends, and she's not brought any grammar school friends round. Any friends at all apart from a couple. From how she talks she's embarrassed about our house compared to others. We went down the route of 'buy the worst house in the best area.' I think she's embarrassed by our tiny 2 bed semi when some of her friends live in actual mansions. (Dropped her off there).

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 31/03/2023 19:20

I spent the best part of 2 days washing and drying all her laundry.

I put it in 3 big IKEA bags for her to put away.

Today it's all over the floor. There was a banana peel on the pile.

OP posts:
Kennykenkencat · 31/03/2023 19:31

the anti depressants should lift her mood enough to engage with therapy so if they aren’t doing that it maybe needs looking at but you need to build up trust

If she has ADHD then the antidepressants won’t work because she isn’t actually depressed. It’s the adhd that is the issue.
Lots of women take antidepressants for years that never work because they aren’t depressed. They have ADHD. As soon as they get assessed and take the adhd medication things start to fall into place.

She's well enough to party, but refuses to even help unpack groceries

This is a classic thing that people say who don’t get ADHD

Unpacking groceries doesn’t give you the dopamine rush that partying gives you

I was actually shocked that you cleaned her room and then wrote her a letter and hinted at sofa surfing.

I haven’t ever met your Dd but from what you write from the uncontrolled emotional outbursts, the filthy room, her dropping out of school, not wanting to do anything but then doing stuff she likes, the whole thing screams ND

You ask what you could do and my reply is to look up how to parent a ND child. Punishments don’t work because we have so much going on in our heads another voice about something or other is just another voice.
The difference between being NT and having ADHD is that if every thought, idea or ability was a person and you had to say pack a suitcase the thought processes and ideas needed for a NT person would all line up in order and you could work your way through each process with no problems.
With adhd you get all the thoughts and ideas you need to pack the suitcase but you also get Motley Crew and Queen doing battle in your head with questions about what ever happened to someone you used to know, a tv program you watched playing on a loop. You get all the other jobs that need to be done shouting at you and the suitcase remains unpacked because the thought processes needed to pack it have wandered off or are hiding behind everything else that is going on in your brain.

It is exhausting just trying to decipher what you want or need.

That’s why your Dd can’t answer you when you ask her what she wants as that answer is drowned out by everything else going on in her head

Learnergranny · 31/03/2023 20:36

You describe your daughter when she was much younger. This describes my son to the last detail. It was the 1980s, he was considered unteachable and I was a bad mother. That was until my daughter was born. She developed 'normally ' and I began to realise my son had developmental problems. When he left primary school I was told he was mentally defective. Just accept the son you have, not the one you would like to have. He was statemented at his next school and he learnt to read. Life was always difficult at school.

Anyway at the age of 30 he discovered he was adhd and autistic.

He left school after his gcse's and he did an apprenticeship. He had a passion for electronics. He now teaches at university. That's his story. Find your daughters passion and help her fulfil it. Best of luck it's a hard journey.