Child has dropped out of grammar school and I'm panicking

[ThatFraggle]

DD 18 stopped going to school at the beginning of this year, she's meant to be writing A levels. She got good GCSEs moved to a grammar school during the pandemic. No bullying as far as we are aware. She is very outgoing and sociable and is still bubbly on the phone to her friends.

School have been round to the house. All sorts of meetings. She just says, 'I'll try to do better' then goes right back to what it was before.

She takes antidepressants but won't see a therapist. She says 'there aren't any'. We have Bupa. I called and they said since she's over 18 she has to do it herself but she won't.

She refuses to do chores. Her room is disgusting. You have to climb over piles of clothes. I go in there to get plates once they have run out in the house. She has a bathroom to herself and it's a state too. Never cleaned and I'm not doing it. (School didn't see her room, only downstairs which is normal)

She stays in bed all day, is up all night on the phone. She goes out on weekends with her friends and comes back on Monday.

We've stopped pocket money, stopped driving lessons. She doesn't care.

I've explained all her friends will finish school and be doing things and she'll get left behind. If she decides A levels are not for her then she needs to get a job or an apprenticeship. Since she was in primary school we've gone to like 50 different 'career talk' things. (Not arranged by school, just things I've found, like a charity called Stemettes) Scientists, astronauts, artists. All sorts. To get an idea of what sort of thing she might enjoy when she finishes school.

Today I said if she just goes to school from today to the end of the year I'll pay for her to travel regardless of grades. Just to go to school. She's still in bed. Offer off the table.

She said what she wants is for us to rent her a studio apartment and then she'll go to school. I said 1. We can't afford that, 2. That's why people go to school, get qualifications so they can do that for themselves.

It's just three of us here and her step father and I have rows. I said if she wants to go and live with a school friend for a few months we will pay for her expenses there for the 3 months until school ends. She says she wants her own flat.

I'm at my wit's end. My mum came over to speak to her from another city a few months ago. No change.

Her biological dad is a deadbeat who moved back abroad when she was in nursery. He has paid nothing and has little contact with her and has a new family, including a stepdaughter her age and two new babies. I imagine that's upsetting to her as he's on social media playing happy families.

I don't know what to do.

It sounds like her antidepressants aren't working. Her doctors won't speak to you about her health as she's an adult, but they may listen to your concerns. I'd phone the GP who is prescribing the antidepressants and explain her current lifestyle.

The messiness is a symptom of depression, not her being lazy. I'd help her get it cleaned thoroughly.

Sounds like the sniping atmosphere at home is affecting her badly (and can't be any fun for you) and you probably need to tackle that first and foremost for her sake. Is there any way financially you can sell up and buy a two bedroom flat for yourself and daughter?

If she's not going to school she should get a job and contribute to household expenses. I really wouldn't bother trying to make her go anymore. She's clearly made her mind up.

Personally I'd also stop doing anything for her. she can cook her own meals/do own washing etc. If she has left education she's an adult and can contribute like one.

I think some of the people on here are forgetting this is an 18 year old we are talking about. At that age you don’t really have any concept of money or budgeting or anything like that Telling the OP to chuck her DD out is completely ridiculous, unhelpful and would more than likely to do more harm to their relationship than good.

I am in a situation which has some similarities. To cut a long story short, DDs therapist has offered me some sessions and in the first one basically said my anxiety about DD was adding to DDs anxiety and it's time to step back and let her own her successes and mistakes. I think she is right and am trying to do it.

Hard but weirdly liberating.

I offer this in a spirit of support. I notice in your OP you say you are panicking - but maybe your daughter is or isn't - but she needs to work it out.

I am not advocating abandoning and withdrawing all support, advice or guidance but I'm trying to wait until I'm asked and have stopped checking up on her on various (very crucial) things.

We'll see . . .

She wants to be independent and run her own life? Start right away.

Stop ALL her allowance/pocketmoney/ paying for her phone/ providing taxi and laundry services.

Before long her pals will be up to their ears in A level revision, exams, planning their university courses/gap years. THEN she'll realise what she's missing

She is 18 - she is an adult and there is very little you can do other than provide support.

I don't think sanctions are going to work at this stage. You need to let her work through this. @Fretfulagain offered some wise words. Set boundaries (eg. you're not going to rent her a flat), and give her space to try and work on her mental health. Personally, I would continue the driving lessons if that motivates her to get out of bed.

Honestly, A-Levels can wait, I have friends that took a year out at this stage and came back with a much better idea of what they wanted to do with their lives, and the mental attitude to achieve it.

Clean her room for her before it gets too bad. That might lift her mood a little. She may just revert back but at least you'll find the plates that are missing! Encourage her without pressuring. Let her know you love her. If you're able to turn off the wi fi at night or even turn it off for a few days and lie that it's broken. She's probably watching all sorts of "affirming" things on tic tic. When I say affirming I mean other yp agreeing that it's unfair to get out of bed when you don't feel like it or "my mental health is more important than school"
Ive been through this with two of mine. Ones now 20 and about to go to a good uni the others a qualified nurse. Hang in there.

At 18 I and most of my peers were working full time, living independently, paying rent and financing our own lives. A dose of reality is what is needed here.

I'm not sure an 'I know best, you'll see' approach is quite the right thing here, tempting as it is! I don't know your daughter, OP, but the chances are her behaviour stems because she is unhappy or fearful or anxious for some reason.

I know it's frustrating but if she feels punished (even if that isn't what you intend), she's doing to feel worse, not better and the risk is she'll feel everyone/everything is against her and I'm willing to bet you don't want that.

If you can, talk to her. Tell her you are anxious and tell her why but ask her how she is feeling and what is going on for her. Is there any chance there come be some ND issues? The overlap between ND and anxiety is significant and the fact that your DD feels therapy won't work or hasn't worked might be pointing to her feeling misunderstood or that she doesn't fit in (and ND people need a particular therapeutic approach, bolstered by environmental changes). I'm speculating of course and may be way off course but there will be a reason your daughter feels unhappy.

Step 1 I'd go in her room, open curtains and windows, armed with a washing baskets, bin bag and cleaning supplies and just get it done. Step 2 tell her again she has to go to school or get a job, there is no middle option at 18 Step 3 if you're paying for her phone you take it off her at night. Tell her if she's acting like a child she will be treated as such and if she doesn't like it, she can stay at a friend's.

She's 18 stop trying to control her. If she fails her A levels so be it.

I feel for kids today who have to put up with an indefinitely deferred adulthood

Tbh OP I think you should know a bit more about what your DDs problem is, what she does when she goes out at the weekend and what she wants to do beyond you buying her a flat.
it’s hard to solve the problem when you don’t know or don’t want to tell us what it is

I agree with @cowzen - your DD has time for A levels and if she wants to learn to drive then I'd do all I could to support that.

Bottom line - your daughter is unwell. I hate to be tedious and apologise for saying this but if she had a physical injury or a disease, no-one would be suggesting she pull herself together/learn how tough life can really be.

I'd suggest you do yourself and your DD a favour and don't focus on academic achievement or life goals for the moment - just find out what is wrong and how she can get better. I know it's hard and it's really really tough to see the children of friends go from success to success but there are more important things and if you give her time, space and support now, she'll get there.

Sending supportive vibes to you and your DD.

Oh, also, maybe think about some support for you so you can support her. I know the health providers won't talk to you about her but there are agencies and charities which support young people and their parents. We have something called Open Door near us and there are other mental health charities and local authorities and schools also run things. Worth flexing your research skills. You never know, if you find a decent therapist, your DD might observe a benefit and follow your lead.

You say you can't afford to get divorced. I don't think it's that simple. What would you do when your DD leaves home, just stay living unhappily together just the 2 of you for the rest of your life? Are you ever going to be able to afford to get divorced? If so, you might as well do it now and deal with the consequences. How about if you suggest to DD that the two of you could move out together. The joint house would have to be sold. Or if your DH could move out maybe you could get a lodger? If the home situation is that bad she might well be acting out all the problems in the family so a good first step might be to try and change that rather than her. I speak as someone who left an unhappy marriage with 2 young kids and only a part time job and really couldn't afford to get divorced. But I couldn't afford not to either, it would have destroyed us all. But I came out the other side and I'm good now and happily married to someone different.

I would clean up her room and clear it out - clean and clear the bathroom. She sounds depressed and needs help and looking after.

not sure about the phone. I’d maybe take it away unless she gets up and talks to you. It’s a privilege that isn’t a right.

"I've explained all her friends will finish school and be doing things and she'll get left behind."

I think she's very very aware of this.
No need to reinforce the fears she already has with all the terrible outcomes.

She knows that school is on every day of the week.
She stews in shame all week and only gets relief from that at weekends because 'everyone is the same' at the weekends. She doesn't feel like a social reject at the weekends.
I bet she stays in bed until the exact time school ends near enough.

I'd be doing the exact opposite of what some people here are saying.

I'd be doing more supportive, gentle mothering. I would be asking her if she'd like help tidying her room, I'd be asking her if she wanted a cup of tea.
I'd be saying 'wouldn't it be nice to have a clean bathroom and if you could do the sink I will do the toilet and the floor, it might make you feel a bit better'

Offer help with little daily things like that. Show your willingness to be alongside her. To partner with her in her struggle.
Focus on the minutae of the day rather than the big picture of 'what are you going to do with your life FFS!'

She's regressed temporarily therefore my advice is stop making demands and threats and stop predicting terrifying futures for her.

If she could do any better right now, she would.
If she could go to school she would.
She wants to be like everyone else but right now she cannot do that.

Have you asked her if she is affected by you and your partner fighting all the time? Have you apologised to her for that being the situation she has to live in?

Thanks you for all your kind responses. Hugs to anyone experiencing similar, and thanks for the encouraging words from those who have come out the other side.

@PrinceHaz or any others - how did you go about getting the Autism ADHD diagnosis in an adult?

@crumpet
It's not that we said 'be an astronaut '. It was more 'whatever you are interested in, we will support you. Here are some examples of how people make a living.

@PastaLaVista
I've taken her to lunch and said you have to do SOMETHING but nothing comes of it. She had a part time job she stopped during the pandemic. I asked if she wanted to go back to that. She said no.

@threelocusts
Could you tell me more about the therapeutic centrum?

@VegetablesRiseUp(sorry, can't remember the rest)
I think grammar school was a shock. She was used to coasting, now she's doing A levels in a class full of clever girls.

@anunlike
I've suggested walks/exercise together but she refuses.

She doesn't have a plan of what she wants to do. When she was younger she wanted to do what her dad's dad does, but as that side of the family lost interest, she stopped talking about that.

@kennykencat
The talks were not all academic. Art, music, dance workshops.

@choconut
When the teachers were here just before half term, we discussed how she might feel she is too behind to even botherr. But they said that she could work with her teachers to still get a passing grade.

I've said to her I'm worried about where the money is coming from, but I don't get any straight answer.

@Iamdobby63
There could be a relationship I'm not aware of or worse.

The cameras in her room. It's not a huge room and no angle will hide the sheer amount of mess.

@RoseBucket
I said that if she got up and physically went to school every day, I would buy her a plane ticket. Either OZ, USA, places we have family, or elsewhere if she wanted.

I'm not going to put her out on the street, so she knows that ultimatum has no teeth.

I will look into careers connect, youth connections and Princes trust.

Vitamin D & B testing.

Turning WiFi off after 9.

We've stopped her phone before and she just ran up the landline bill.

@musicfor the soul and others.
She screams at me if I try to tidy her room.

I've said no eating there and she just ignores it.

We never eat together but I always cook enough for everyone, with leftovers in the fridge.

@Lillylillydaisy
She won't shower for days but when she does, she will put on eyelashes and everything.

There was a thread about a parent with a tearaway young teen. It turns out that the mum (no dad in the picture) never disciplined him because 'she didn't want to upset him.'

That's not the case here. I read all the parenting books and really REALLY tried.
She was always the sweetest angel at school 'a delight to teach' apart from talking in class.

But when we were at home she used to have screaming tantrums. She only ever does exactly what she wants.

Getting good grades and succeeding at school was what she wanted. Now that she doesn't, it's like nothing will budge her.

I remember once when she was three literally spending more than an hour to get her to sit on the naughty step. She refused because 'I'm not naughty.' 'you did a naughty thing, so sit on the step for 3 minutes.' She simply would not do it. I knew that is the naughty step came up, everything for the rest of the day was cancelled because she wouldn't do it. Reward chats, stickers, rewards. She has never given a single shit from day 1.

She still had screaming tantrums. It just never stopped from the terrible twos, but when I tried to get help because at school or at the GP she would be a cute angel, and they wouldn't believe me. Then out came the screaming banshee at home.

She's never been violent but she screams and stamps up/down the stairs/ slams the door hard enough to crack plaster.

Since she was in primary school we've gone to like 50 different 'career talk' things.

Crikey OP!!!! Maybe she's railing against this.

And what @Seaweed42 said.

The last thing she needs is more reminders about how her life will turn out

@ThatFraggle from your update it does sound like there may be some neurodiversity.
Behaving well in school/public then having a melt down at home (safe space) can be an indication of masking.

When you put it like that it sounds a lot, but the way it was organised was you go to day camp. On Monday it would be a ballet dancer and a violinist and at the end of the day you've learnt a little dance and can play the note C. On Tuesday it would be an architect and a footballer. At the end of the day you can pass a ball and have made a little model lighthouse. So that's 4 things. Sometimes it would be an 19 year old first year nurse, something like that. You learn some basic first aid and how to take a pulse.

In a year we wouldn't really go more than 4/5 days a year.

Over 6-7 years it adds up. But 5 days a YEAR for fun activities which also happen to expose you to careers does not seem excessive to me.

She screams at you because you are her safe place. She stores up all that anxiety, fear and over stimulation from the world, and she brings it home to you, because she knows you will still love her regardless, even if you don't like her much right now. It doesn't make it right, but you are basically describing both my sister and brother, both of whom were ASC.

Rewards and punishments didn't work for them either, and they also could not give a monkey's beyond doing exactly what they wanted, when they wanted, with no concept of how it impacted others, because their brains just didn't think that way.

You can do free online ASC tests, and some are designed specifically for women, as women present differently to men, which is why so many women go undiagnosed. They are better at masking, and being sociable. But it is just that, a mask, and it is draining and exhausting to pretend to be someone so that you can fit in. Maybe a new school and new people was just too overwhelming.

But that is just an indicator, she would need a proper diagnosis.

The other thing is that it could be trauma, in which case anti-depressants won't touch it. Only CBT will help with that.

@ThatFraggle dont worry it is stupidly long username.
mine needs to feel clever otherwise her anxiety kicks in that she’s useless and gives up. So that could be at play, plus A level is a big jump up in some subjects. And like another poster said, she may feel so far behind now that it all feels pointless.

a friend of mine at school retook a year, she twatted about (like me) but realised half way through year 12 and got her shit together (I wish I’d realised too!) but she’s got to want to. It also sounds like college might be better suited. Again though, she’s got to want to and that’s your biggest issue at the moment isn’t it. Not opportunity.

OP, you lost me on ‘the cameras in her room’

So when she leaves for the weekend, is it always to the same friend and is it every weekend? I know that suffering with depression doesn’t mean you are constantly unable to do things but I’m curious if she manages to go every weekend?

Unfortunately you can’t force her to go to school but I get your frustration, she has such a short amount of time left as it’s nearly the exams. I guess she doesn’t care that it’s almost two years she’s wasted by not finishing? I think you’ve been lucky with the support from the school, I was told that they can’t get involved because it’s not compulsory education, long time ago now though.

Very little you can do I’m afraid. All I can suggest is to try to ensure nothing untoward is happening and provide he with the basics. Ignore her room and I would back off and simply provide the basics. I’m afraid she’s going to have to learn from her own mistakes. Take a step back if for no other reason than for your own sanity.