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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child has dropped out of grammar school and I'm panicking

228 replies

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 09:21

DD 18 stopped going to school at the beginning of this year, she's meant to be writing A levels. She got good GCSEs moved to a grammar school during the pandemic. No bullying as far as we are aware. She is very outgoing and sociable and is still bubbly on the phone to her friends.

School have been round to the house. All sorts of meetings. She just says, 'I'll try to do better' then goes right back to what it was before.

She takes antidepressants but won't see a therapist. She says 'there aren't any'. We have Bupa. I called and they said since she's over 18 she has to do it herself but she won't.

She refuses to do chores. Her room is disgusting. You have to climb over piles of clothes. I go in there to get plates once they have run out in the house. She has a bathroom to herself and it's a state too. Never cleaned and I'm not doing it. (School didn't see her room, only downstairs which is normal)

She stays in bed all day, is up all night on the phone. She goes out on weekends with her friends and comes back on Monday.

We've stopped pocket money, stopped driving lessons. She doesn't care.

I've explained all her friends will finish school and be doing things and she'll get left behind. If she decides A levels are not for her then she needs to get a job or an apprenticeship. Since she was in primary school we've gone to like 50 different 'career talk' things. (Not arranged by school, just things I've found, like a charity called Stemettes) Scientists, astronauts, artists. All sorts. To get an idea of what sort of thing she might enjoy when she finishes school.

Today I said if she just goes to school from today to the end of the year I'll pay for her to travel regardless of grades. Just to go to school. She's still in bed. Offer off the table.

She said what she wants is for us to rent her a studio apartment and then she'll go to school. I said 1. We can't afford that, 2. That's why people go to school, get qualifications so they can do that for themselves.

It's just three of us here and her step father and I have rows. I said if she wants to go and live with a school friend for a few months we will pay for her expenses there for the 3 months until school ends. She says she wants her own flat.

I'm at my wit's end. My mum came over to speak to her from another city a few months ago. No change.

Her biological dad is a deadbeat who moved back abroad when she was in nursery. He has paid nothing and has little contact with her and has a new family, including a stepdaughter her age and two new babies. I imagine that's upsetting to her as he's on social media playing happy families.

I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
Stugs · 29/03/2023 10:23

pookie999 · 29/03/2023 10:13

I have been going through this with DS this year. It is an emotional roller coaster because I thought he was going to go back a few times after meetings with college. I said eventually that if he just said what he wanted to do I would fully support him because I wanted what was best for him and my expectations were easily changed. He said in a very emotional conversation that he felt physically sick going to college and that he thought about suicide all the time. He hadn't told his friends because he wanted everyone to think he was normal and fun so they would like him. This was a break through because he needed to know that I loved and supported him through thick and thin. He also talked to his close friends about how he was really feeling. I prioritised our connection and making sure he knows he is loved and supported just as he is. I had all the usual worries about failure and so did he but I have put these away and accept that although he's academically bright he will not get those exams and that's OK. I would add that I have counselling for myself and I recommend this to any parent in this situation. It supports me to understand what really matters in my relationship with my son. I know you have Bupa and I highly recommend this especially since you need to think about your relationship with your partner. All the folks here suggesting being punitive or cutting off the phone don't understand parenting a teenager who has had the burden of lockdown. Take care

What a lovely post.

Kennykenkencat · 29/03/2023 11:40

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 15:38

When you put it like that it sounds a lot, but the way it was organised was you go to day camp. On Monday it would be a ballet dancer and a violinist and at the end of the day you've learnt a little dance and can play the note C. On Tuesday it would be an architect and a footballer. At the end of the day you can pass a ball and have made a little model lighthouse. So that's 4 things. Sometimes it would be an 19 year old first year nurse, something like that. You learn some basic first aid and how to take a pulse.

In a year we wouldn't really go more than 4/5 days a year.

Over 6-7 years it adds up. But 5 days a YEAR for fun activities which also happen to expose you to careers does not seem excessive to me.

I wouldn’t say those were careers talks

As someone with ADHD I think I would be mightily confused that those were careers talks.
Or even something to offer an insight of what a career looked like that I might want to do

I think knowing your Dd, not what she is good at or how bright she is academically but the intrinsic fundamentals of what makes her tick. What she enjoys doing and what she hates. Eg I am great at maths, and I enjoy the subject
My mother decided I should go into banking Anyone who knows me knew it wasn’t for me. Now if someone had suggested being a croupier then that would was more me.
The careers advisor at school was only looking at 9-5 “respectable” jobs or jobs that needed A levels or a degree

I would give your Dd the option of just leaving school and looking for jobs, freelance stuff whilst she gets her head round what she wants to do, even looking at online work that she can dip into to see how the world works and where she feels she fits in

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:08

So, a bit of an update.

There's a sport she does but we said we wouldn't pay for it any more if she's not going to school. Something like netball. I don't want to be too specific. Anyway, she still goes once a week saying that the coach let her come anyway.

Last night she asked for a lift to go to the sport.

I told her once again that if you're adult enough to go away for days without answer, you're adult enough not to get 'lifts from mummy'. She had a screaming tantrum saying you never said I can't get lifts (we've said it multiple times). We've not been taking her before.

I was going to collect groceries (she knew the slot time because we are all on the app) she came along and I dropped her at the bus stop. This was around 6.

When I got home I did a clear out of her room. She came back at midnight so it took me about 6 hours.

There were five bin bags of rotting fruit, shoe boxes, half biscuits etc. I ran the dishwasher twice. I picked up five bin bags of dirty laundry from the floor.

Things I found.

In the bathroom she uses alone, used tampons on the floor by the bin. General terrible state. I bleached and scrubbed the bath, bleached the sink and toilet, mopped the floor. All the cosmetics etc that were lying around I put into a plastic container.

Her room. An empty bottle of vodka. She claims it's from going out. (I asked when she got back)

Chewing gum stuck to everything. I find that a revolting habit. I never do anything like that. She's not had Pocket money for years now because of things like this. Sticking chewing gum on the living room table, like a dog weeing to make a mark. We have a clean, ordinary house and she does this deliberately.

Carpet ruined. The first time we moved in she accidentally melted part of the carpet with straighteners. I bought a rug to cover that part. It turns out that she just regularly puts it on the carpet. Doesn't give a shit. I haven't seen the floor enough to have realised this.

When she brushes her hair, she will just leave the ball of hair on the floor.

Tea towels used to wipe off makeup. I threw those away.

I found many of my belongings - makeup etc. She always feels entitled to help herself. E.g. she has normal straighteners. When I got a ghd, she decided that's what she wants. My bedroom door doesn't have a lock, and I hate the idea of having to walk around my own house with a key just so she can't get in my room. Lock the door to make myself a cuppa. I can't live like that so don't have a lock. I lock some things like that in a suitcase in my room now but obviously I can't keep everything in a suitcase.

I wrote her a letter and left it on her bed. saying 1. Most adults share a living space. Either with friends, a partner, roommates. She's making life hard for herself by having dirty habits.

If she likes partying so much, she can get a job as a club promoter or something. But she can't just be doing nothing.

She texted me saying 'why do you hate me. I've downloaded a sofa surfing app.'

I responded saying that if I hated her I wouldn't ask for accountability from her. Making herself homeless just because you've been told to keep tidy and get a job/go to school is really dumb and short sighted.

Meeting with school again on Monday.

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:11

@DDenisthemenis I really empathize.

At pp, she won't talk to me about her meds. I have suggested reviewing with GP.

OP posts:
Spkat · 29/03/2023 12:14

Tou sound absolutely horrible.

The only thing wrong with your daughter is you need to learn to parent a teenager. She may be neurodiverse and completely overwhelmed. Poor kid.

Spkat · 29/03/2023 12:15

You*

Frazzled83 · 29/03/2023 12:19

Spkat · 29/03/2023 12:14

Tou sound absolutely horrible.

The only thing wrong with your daughter is you need to learn to parent a teenager. She may be neurodiverse and completely overwhelmed. Poor kid.

This is totally incorrect. You sound worried and like you care deeply about her and her life chances. As someone who went through a very difficult time in my teens and now a parent to young children myself, I am so completely grateful that my mum never gave up on me and also gave me some tough love at times. I wouldn’t be where I am without her.

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:22

@JJack80
She doesn't want to stay with my mum. It's a different city away from her friends. She literally doesn't give a shit and only ever does what she wants. I'm not a crunchy mum, 'saying no to Tarquin will damage his aura!'. (When she was little)I tried my best to limit screen time growing up, going for walks, playground to use up energy, routine, bath time & bedtime routine etc. She's only ever done exactly what she wants and has screaming tantrums. You can watch a whole movie and she's still screaming because she was told we won't be getting a doughnut from Greggs after swimming because she refused to do chores. As an older teen it's screaming and crying when she doesn't get her way. She knows she won't get what she wants but will do so anyway.

Honestly, it's exhausting. Sometimes instead of driving home I just want to keep driving until I get to somewhere in Scotland. I'll take a ferry and live on an island with a handsome fisherman.

And thanks for all the posts about autism, ADD, ADHD. Will look into those.

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:24

Spkat · 29/03/2023 12:14

Tou sound absolutely horrible.

The only thing wrong with your daughter is you need to learn to parent a teenager. She may be neurodiverse and completely overwhelmed. Poor kid.

Well, tell me what you suggest?

OP posts:
BumpyaDaisyevna · 29/03/2023 12:27

I wonder if its something to do with growing up and as A levels approach so does the prospect of leaving home?

I think its a very stressful time - I often think when else in life must you (a) do really well in four or five exams and meet your uni offer - a cause for celebration, but kind of bittersweet because (b) one of the consequences of doing thus well is that you will leave your home and your mum and dad and everything you have ever known in life for something completely unknown!

It's kind of a miracle that Y13s cope at all.

Mine is only in Y9 but she was quite tearful about doing her GCSE option choices. When we talked about it it emerged that she feels like she is on a very fast travelator to having to leave us - in her mind it was "leave home FOREVER". We did have a chat and I explained even when you are at uni, you are here for half the year, and sometimes people return to live at home to work. And you will ALWAYS have a home with us. So it is many many years until you will really be independent, fully. That takes a LONG time. She calmed down a lot.

It all unravelled in Y13 for my best friend's son, with depression and school refusal. He didn't take A levels, there was huge panic that he would be lost forever. Of course he was not. He had a year or two at home to gather himself and recover, working locally, and then he sat his A levels and went to uni. Just needed a bit of breathing space and to get off that travelator for a time.

I don't know if its the right approach but I think I would be minded just to let your DD to just be with no pressure and no decisions, just for a few months. Her friends will take A levels, they will go to college ... and things will be different. Maybe she is just not quite ready.

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:31

Kennykenkencat · 29/03/2023 11:40

I wouldn’t say those were careers talks

As someone with ADHD I think I would be mightily confused that those were careers talks.
Or even something to offer an insight of what a career looked like that I might want to do

I think knowing your Dd, not what she is good at or how bright she is academically but the intrinsic fundamentals of what makes her tick. What she enjoys doing and what she hates. Eg I am great at maths, and I enjoy the subject
My mother decided I should go into banking Anyone who knows me knew it wasn’t for me. Now if someone had suggested being a croupier then that would was more me.
The careers advisor at school was only looking at 9-5 “respectable” jobs or jobs that needed A levels or a degree

I would give your Dd the option of just leaving school and looking for jobs, freelance stuff whilst she gets her head round what she wants to do, even looking at online work that she can dip into to see how the world works and where she feels she fits in

Thanks @Kennykenkencat
They were by a small local charity that specifically organises them as career tasters. It was set up to counter so many people having careers day at school saying 'you can do one of these 5 things'.

She just refused to engage.

OP posts:
BumpyaDaisyevna · 29/03/2023 12:37

Having read all your posts OP what comes across is little evidence of much of a warm connection between you both. And this is mirrored in the relationship between you and your DH.

It seems like this is a house where no-one likes anyone else.

Is that right? Have you all lost your way in terms of being able to have good warm connections together as well as the usual irritation, dislike, hatred, frustration ...?

Can you remember any occasion when you had a nice interaction with your DD/DH? Even if only a giggle watching TV? Or is there really absolutely nothing to work with here?

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:48

BumpyaDaisyevna · 29/03/2023 12:37

Having read all your posts OP what comes across is little evidence of much of a warm connection between you both. And this is mirrored in the relationship between you and your DH.

It seems like this is a house where no-one likes anyone else.

Is that right? Have you all lost your way in terms of being able to have good warm connections together as well as the usual irritation, dislike, hatred, frustration ...?

Can you remember any occasion when you had a nice interaction with your DD/DH? Even if only a giggle watching TV? Or is there really absolutely nothing to work with here?

For mother's Day we went out, me and her for a cream tea. It was a nice day.

But I'm not going to be able to chat and giggle with someone refusing to go to school/work. Sticking gum on the light switches, using up all the plates in the house and stealing my few luxuries.

OP posts:
Kennykenkencat · 29/03/2023 12:59

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:48

For mother's Day we went out, me and her for a cream tea. It was a nice day.

But I'm not going to be able to chat and giggle with someone refusing to go to school/work. Sticking gum on the light switches, using up all the plates in the house and stealing my few luxuries.

But that is parenting.

Ds might not stick gum on stuff but he does everything else and we have done really funny chats and are always laughing together and are very happy. I know that all this is to do with his ADHD so I am not going to get angry with him for something he can’t help.

I think that BumpyaDaisyevna is right that you have a household of fractured relationships.

brassbells · 29/03/2023 13:43

Do you think the change of school was like a big fish in a small pond going to be a small fish in a big pond?

I don't mean size wise I mean academic wise that she went from being the best in her previous school without really trying so that she thought she was the best in everything in her whole life in and out of school

Then she goes to a grammar school where she is in the middle academic level with girls much more academic than her and so her whole way of thinking about herself got mixed up and it disoriented her self belief

Fretfulagain · 29/03/2023 14:26

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 12:24

Well, tell me what you suggest?

There have been some very clear suggestions. Stop punishing her and seek support for you are the two take-always for me.

your current approach isn’t working for either of you - you both sound very unhappy and she has indicated really clearly that she feels like you hate her.

give her pocket money and pay for her sport. Support her and get some help so you can guide her but do yourself and her a favour and stop trying to control her. I suspect what you see as lazy and not giving a shit is deep unhappiness. She’s on anti-depressants- there’s quite a big clue right there.

Spanglemum · 29/03/2023 14:29

Pre-pandemic a friend's son dropped out of A levels and spent a couple of years in his room. He'd had a lot of illness in childhood and somehow it all caught up with him. After a few years he went to FE college for A levels, then went to university and now works in IT.

I do recommend reading up on autism in girls. I know that you can't force her to get an investigation but it might help you.

Why do the school keep coming round?

Fretfulagain · 29/03/2023 14:30

I think you sound angry with her - and I’m not having a go, I recognise the fear and frustration after all you’ve done but it will destroy your relationship with her. You need to deal with your feelings, the added benefit will be the modelling for your DD but you will be in a better place to support her.

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:32

@brassbells

Yes, I think it was definitely a shock to the system. She coasted and was a teacher's pet and then at grammar school it's a class full of Hermione Grangers and work that is difficult for the first time.

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:34

@VestaTilley

Yes she has had a Saturday job.

I cleaned her room so she's starting on a fresh slate.

I have some here telling me I'm not nice enough to her, others saying too much pandering. How does one ever know the correct course of action.

OP posts:
FancyFran · 29/03/2023 14:36

I said this up thread, talk to your daughter. You can control the mess by cleaning it and telling her in no uncertain terms she is a dirty mare.
Have you asked her wants she wants to do next? If she says nothing she needs to claim benefits. You don't apply for her and the dwp can provide the funds and objectives. If her mental health is very poor she will get pip.
When my DDs gap year friends started leaving for uni my daughter suddenly woke up and shifted it. She didn't want to be left behind. Get her applying for foundation degrees (the criteria is flexible it's not all A*).
I do agree with the poster questioning a 'happy home'. You have said you and your DH don't get on. She will know that. If it was me I would take her house shopping for a two bed for you and her. She's your priority.

ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:36

Spanglemum · 29/03/2023 14:29

Pre-pandemic a friend's son dropped out of A levels and spent a couple of years in his room. He'd had a lot of illness in childhood and somehow it all caught up with him. After a few years he went to FE college for A levels, then went to university and now works in IT.

I do recommend reading up on autism in girls. I know that you can't force her to get an investigation but it might help you.

Why do the school keep coming round?

Thanks for the suggestions.

School came round once. I suppose it was safeguarding to see why the hell isn't she at school.

All the other times are me going to meetings at school.

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:45

Fretfulagain · 29/03/2023 14:26

There have been some very clear suggestions. Stop punishing her and seek support for you are the two take-always for me.

your current approach isn’t working for either of you - you both sound very unhappy and she has indicated really clearly that she feels like you hate her.

give her pocket money and pay for her sport. Support her and get some help so you can guide her but do yourself and her a favour and stop trying to control her. I suspect what you see as lazy and not giving a shit is deep unhappiness. She’s on anti-depressants- there’s quite a big clue right there.

Yes, there have been some great suggestions and I intend on following up.

Pp had just said I'm a bad parent (not sure if it was you. I've not kept track of usernames.)

She didn't just stop going to school one day. Her absenteeism has increased to the point where attendance is now zero.

We have done so much to support her.

She said the bus route was too cold and difficult. I quit my job and have something shittier but which allows me to pick her up and drop her off.

We've been paying for her sport even all while she was going to school 2-3 days a week. But we are not paying now that she won't go to school.

She deliberately sticks chewing gum onto things. Yes I'm angry with her. Not only for things like that but for the stupidity.

I'm aware she's unhappy. I'm the one who insisted she go to the GP.

But apart from antidepressants she refuses to get help. She refuses to make the calls to book. I've tried doing it for her, but as an adult they say I can't.

OP posts:
ThatFraggle · 29/03/2023 14:50

FancyFran · 29/03/2023 14:36

I said this up thread, talk to your daughter. You can control the mess by cleaning it and telling her in no uncertain terms she is a dirty mare.
Have you asked her wants she wants to do next? If she says nothing she needs to claim benefits. You don't apply for her and the dwp can provide the funds and objectives. If her mental health is very poor she will get pip.
When my DDs gap year friends started leaving for uni my daughter suddenly woke up and shifted it. She didn't want to be left behind. Get her applying for foundation degrees (the criteria is flexible it's not all A*).
I do agree with the poster questioning a 'happy home'. You have said you and your DH don't get on. She will know that. If it was me I would take her house shopping for a two bed for you and her. She's your priority.

She refuses to say what she wants to do. She refuses to engage with anyone who asks her.

I've never said we have a happy home. But I don't know if she will be any happier with just me, who she clearly doesn't like. And being in a smaller space with her disgusting habits would be hell on my own mental health.

OP posts:
Fretfulagain · 29/03/2023 14:51

No-ones know the correct course of action. There isn’t a single golden answer. It will take time effort and mistakes Ali g the way, the same as all other parenting.

my observation would be your current approach is getting your current response so maybe change it.
as for posts look at those who have had similar and have experience - listen to them.

as for those from the succession school of parenting - they seem to be talking from high horses not the grassroots of actual experience with a real teen but your choice

id bet my mortgage your DD does not want to be or like being where she is now but is probably sad, overwhelmed and exhausted.

prob don’t ask her what would help because she won’t be able to answer I do t think

the anti depressants should lift her mood enough to engage with therapy so if they aren’t doing that it maybe needs looking at but you need to build up trust