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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child has dropped out of grammar school and I'm panicking

228 replies

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 09:21

DD 18 stopped going to school at the beginning of this year, she's meant to be writing A levels. She got good GCSEs moved to a grammar school during the pandemic. No bullying as far as we are aware. She is very outgoing and sociable and is still bubbly on the phone to her friends.

School have been round to the house. All sorts of meetings. She just says, 'I'll try to do better' then goes right back to what it was before.

She takes antidepressants but won't see a therapist. She says 'there aren't any'. We have Bupa. I called and they said since she's over 18 she has to do it herself but she won't.

She refuses to do chores. Her room is disgusting. You have to climb over piles of clothes. I go in there to get plates once they have run out in the house. She has a bathroom to herself and it's a state too. Never cleaned and I'm not doing it. (School didn't see her room, only downstairs which is normal)

She stays in bed all day, is up all night on the phone. She goes out on weekends with her friends and comes back on Monday.

We've stopped pocket money, stopped driving lessons. She doesn't care.

I've explained all her friends will finish school and be doing things and she'll get left behind. If she decides A levels are not for her then she needs to get a job or an apprenticeship. Since she was in primary school we've gone to like 50 different 'career talk' things. (Not arranged by school, just things I've found, like a charity called Stemettes) Scientists, astronauts, artists. All sorts. To get an idea of what sort of thing she might enjoy when she finishes school.

Today I said if she just goes to school from today to the end of the year I'll pay for her to travel regardless of grades. Just to go to school. She's still in bed. Offer off the table.

She said what she wants is for us to rent her a studio apartment and then she'll go to school. I said 1. We can't afford that, 2. That's why people go to school, get qualifications so they can do that for themselves.

It's just three of us here and her step father and I have rows. I said if she wants to go and live with a school friend for a few months we will pay for her expenses there for the 3 months until school ends. She says she wants her own flat.

I'm at my wit's end. My mum came over to speak to her from another city a few months ago. No change.

Her biological dad is a deadbeat who moved back abroad when she was in nursery. He has paid nothing and has little contact with her and has a new family, including a stepdaughter her age and two new babies. I imagine that's upsetting to her as he's on social media playing happy families.

I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
WalkingOnTheCracks · 27/03/2023 11:12

Mirabai · 27/03/2023 11:06

Many teens live with unhappy homes and or school environments, but they don’t just drop out of school.

And many do. What’s your point?

The ‘lots of people who have x don’t do y’ argument makes no sense at all. What are we intended to conclude from it?

Choconut · 27/03/2023 11:16

I wonder if she's missed so many lessons now that she feels like she'll never catch up so doesn't see the point any more. Does she feel like she's stuck at home with a mum and step dad who argue all the time while her dad has a wonderful family life abroad without her? I'd be very worried that she says her friends pay for her when she goes out - are 17/18 year olds really rich and generous enough to pay for a friend every single time?

I would talk to her about her future, what does she want to do when school finishes? If A-levels aren't work out for her is there something else she'd rather be doing now or in September - an apprenticeship perhaps or a more vocational course at college. I'd be very worried about her right now as she sounds pretty lost and vulnerable.

Mirabai · 27/03/2023 11:18

WalkingOnTheCracks · 27/03/2023 11:12

And many do. What’s your point?

The ‘lots of people who have x don’t do y’ argument makes no sense at all. What are we intended to conclude from it?

Who’s we?

My point is its not necessary to leave school just because your home life isn’t happy particularly when you haven’t got that long to go.

FannyPhart · 27/03/2023 11:20

It does sound like there is something mentally not right here. Her friends will soon get tired of paying for her all the time but the room thing, I think I'd be making her clear her filthy pit up or she can go and get her own flat herself. I do wonder what sort of reality she lives in thinking other people will rent properties for her.

Supertayto · 27/03/2023 11:23

This sounds incredibly stressful, OP. Just out of curiosity, during the week what would happen if you didn’t seek her out? Would she eventually come downstairs to find company/food? My thinking is whether you could repeatedly lure her downstairs in this manner and casually get her doing something with you. Sort of like engaging a much younger child in activities. Don’t ask her to join you, just have something weird enough out to pique her interest. It might help to open up some conversations that aren’t about what she’s doing - I’d table that for a few weeks and see where you get. Also, I’d explain to DH that arguing needs to take a backseat for a period of time, even if that means you basically ignore each other for a bit. Remove the stress, try and engage her and then have the big chats.

LilylilyDaisy · 27/03/2023 11:27

What's her personal hygiene like, is she clean even if her room is a state? Does she get dressed up (in whatever form that may take for her personally, be it low-key or casual, not necessarily "done up" when she goes out with her friends? i.e. Does she still make an effort personally, whatever form that effort takes? Does she look after her hair, her face etc?

re: messy room, it's a common theme with teenagers but I remember being extremely messy growing up and for me it was (looking back) a security blanket. I felt exposed if my room was clean and tidy, like I'd be forced to face up to doing what I should be doing (usually homework). The mess created a buffer between me and the other things I had to do. It's a bit like if you sat a writer down in an empty perfect room with a desk, a freshly pencil and a fresh pad and said "Write". I didn't want to tidy up because then I'd have to start writing my life, as it were.

(I'm very clean and tidy now, not extreme but definitely cleaner and tidier than most people. )

Abracadabra28 · 27/03/2023 11:41

Tough one OP. I went through a similar ish phase when I was 18. I was a straight a student for my Gcses, lost interest when it came to A Levels, got a boyfriend, suffered from crippling depression, anorexia, a suicide attempt and felt apathetic towards everything. I think the switch from teenager to adult is tough - overwhelming especially if you don't know what you want to do. The making of me was travelling solo for a few months then going to university, having a goal, something to focus on. If she wants to live in her own space that's a great goal to focus on but you need to get through to her that in order to do that she will need a job to support herself and her best chance of giving herself the best opportunitoes for a job are to get the qualifications needed to do so. She's already invested so much time into her education, why give up now when she's so close to the finish line. A change is good. At the moment she seems to be retreating into herself

Kennykenkencat · 27/03/2023 11:44

I think your Dd is picking up on the fact that you and your Dh aren’t happy together and she probably hears the arguments you are having over her behaviour and are probably going to split up
Her own father isn’t a father to her and has his own family.

I think the state of her room is representative of her mental and emotional state.

Everything is messy and rubbish in her room and in her life as there isn’t anything to keep her anchored anymore.
The foundations like a mother and father who love her and prioritise her that everyone else takes for granted are tumbling and she probably feels like she is in free fall.
The request for the flat is a way for her to feel like she has a home.
Somewhere she can control away from the mess and other people where she can think what to do

She also is probably quite closed off from discussing anything as she feels, regardless of what you say, you and her step father and the school and her grandmother have certain expectations she cannot fulfil and it feels like the expectation on her to do A levels then go off to university then get a job sat in an office looks bleak and the choices she is given are from a list made up by someone else so they really aren’t a free choice.

The careers talks/experiences are all very academic stuff

What if you said to stop school now.

Not take her A levels, not go back to school but ring around a few agencies and get freelance type work to get lots of different experiences and meet lots of. different people to decide what she likes or doesn’t like and look at colleges courses in more practical stuff that might take her interest.

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 27/03/2023 11:45

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 11:05

Sorry pp.
I thought AD was Asperger's as they had used ADHD elsewhere in their post and I didn't think DD's sociable bubbliness fit in with Autism or Asperger's.

Not necessarily in girls.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 27/03/2023 11:49

I would try to get underneath the behaviour to figure out the underlying emotions. How is she feeling? Is she scared, feeling abandoned, feeling overwhelmed, all of these or something completely different?

If she is completely flooded with her emotional state then she can't make sensible decisions about the future. I would really consider tidying up for her too. The state of her rooms is likely to reflect her inner world. If you can help her to get things more ordered it will help her to feel better.

Yeah she's an adult yadda yadda but she's your child and she's suffering.

Arou · 27/03/2023 11:59

Princes Trust is a brilliant charity which helps young people get into work and are understanding that these may be school adverse pupils.

I think maybe cutting off the phone at a certain date with the proviso she will need to earn her phone contract. Maybe shutting the WiFi off too. Sometimes you do need a ‘why’ to get yourself sorted out. Wish you all the best x

greenwichvillage · 27/03/2023 12:03

My DD has similar traits to your DD, it all really came to light when she was 21. She did ok academically and graduated with a 2.1 at Uni. But it was when she came back home and we both realised that she may have ADHD. She is 24 now and has just been diagnosed with ADHD and ADD and on a treatment plan, having that diagnosis has really helped us to understand that whatever was going on was not really in her control.
Like your DD my DD was very social but that was a mask, she was trying so hard to be like her peers and it was really hard for mentally. Her room was a mess, she stayed in her a bed a lot. Me and my dh thought it was laziness at first but actually she was really struggling with leading a normal 9 to 5 life.
What worked for us was for me to do be more understanding and to stop nagging her about cleaning her room. We spent time together watching movies on Netflix and organising days out. She would be quiet and moody but I just let it go.
Our relationship improved dramatically, it used to upset me so much that when I saw other mothers and daughters and how happy they were and now we have the same relationship. And I think it improved because I was not on her case all the time. She really wanted to try but her brain was one big jumble so she just needed space and understanding.
Just give her some space but she also needs boundaries. Wish you all the best x

Kittybakes89 · 27/03/2023 12:07

I wasn't unlike this in my late teens. I was perhaps a bit later as I did get through my exams but dropped out of uni.

I ended up getting a job in another part of the UK at 21 and moving out at the same time. It was really hard but it gave me the space I needed to be independent.

I never went back to uni though occasionally consider OU these days. I have a good job that I worked up the company to get, married and own a home.

There was such a defined expecting of what I was meant to do with school then uni etc and it just wasn't for me. Also as much as I was out with friends all the time I wasn't social enough to really handle uni at 18, it was just too much.

anunlikelyseahorse · 27/03/2023 12:11

Toddlerdom to about 8 is firm but fair love
8-15/16 is tough love
After 16 tough love is usually counterproductive (unless a parent is being threatened/ intimidated).

In this case op, I think you and she need to do some walking therapy. If you are near to the coast, moorlands, heathlands or woods ideal, otherwise walking in a good sized park or long a towpath. Don't be afraid to walk in silence, don't fire questions at her, rebuild the relationship from scratch. Don't judge, don't try and offer advice, just let her start to talk as and when she's ready. Start off with short walks and gradually build them up. Walking is good exercise, it helps with better sleep, she'll get more vit d which can help lessen depression. If you can afford it you might look at doing a walking holiday together, just the two of you. Yes she's on the brink of adulthood, but she still needs her mum, and you clearly love her, or you wouldn't be on here worrying about her.

Caplin · 27/03/2023 12:13

It all sounds very complicated, she could just be depressed and overwhelmed, but meds don't seem to be helping, so she does need to commit to counselling.

Or as others say she could be ASC. My sister was similar, so messy, poor personal hygiene, dropped out of school, yet had friends and was outgoing and sociable. She was diagnosed in her early 40s and only in her mid 30s did she find her way back to college/Uni (and that has been a bumpy journey). But don't jump to any big conclusions. However, some ground rules are needed.

She needs to make a decision re school. It may be she drops out while she gets herself sorted, remove some of the stress, and can think about going to college to complete in a year or two. Say you will support her to get a flat, but that she needs a plan on how she will afford and maintain it. So the pathway to get there means that a) she sees a counsellor and b) gets a job to support herself and save a deposit, because that is just real life. Maybe say if she can save half a deposit, you will pay the rest.

But if she is ASC, then you may find there a various false starts to her moving out and supporting herself. My sister moved out a few times from the age or around 18/19, even worked abroad, but up until her 30s, most times she ended up back at home, with a debt and a messy flat left behind, even with her kids in tow!

But I would say, remove some of the stress about school, get her stabilised with a counsellor, then talk about her pathway. Qualifications will always be there if she wants them, she doesn't need to take the same pathway as everyone else.

isitshe · 27/03/2023 12:22

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 10:38

She missed the UCAS deadline but school came round and said she can still do clearing.

Even if her grades are not enough for what she really wants (not sure) she can do a foundation year to decide.

Sugar baby sends chills down my spine. She's very pretty, long hair etc. and always looks nice when she does go out the house.

I don't think there's any sense in putting pressure on her to go through UCAS clearing or do a foundation year. It could tip her further into depression.
And there's absolutely no need for you to panic about her not finishing school while she's 18. Yes, she's an adult but she's only 18. No doubt there'll be people saying they were running their own business & bought their first flat by that age but your daughter is obviously not ready for the next step. Of course she needs to take responsibility for herself but the very thought of adult responsibility can be too much for some people to cope with.
Some people may advocate for tough love & wake-up life lessons, but I don't think that would be the right approach for your daughter.
Starting off with an unskilled job could be beneficial.
Was she putting a lot of pressure on herself to keep up with her peers, academically?
Have you told her it absolutely doesn't matter if she fails, or doesn't stick to the prescribed path at this, or any stage in her life?
She will find her way, with moral support from you and financial support from a basic job.
Fwiw, I was a school refuser, and pressure at 16-18 nearly made me cave.
I found my way up & out eventually but it took time on my own terms.

laveritable · 27/03/2023 12:38

IGNORE HER! For 3 solid months ( it is going to be incredibly difficult). Then give her an ultimatum. Get a job/apprenticeship or she is out!

Foreversearch · 27/03/2023 12:41

@ThatFraggle as pp have said it sounds like depression, possibly neurodivergence, plus I would also add in Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD). January is a really bad time for anyone with SAD when coupled with depression.

I agree that having a messy room and bathroom may be adding pressure as you look at it and don’t know where to start.

I agree with pp that counselling is probably what she needs but until she is ready it won’t happen. However, I would suggest she goes to her GP and be tested for Vitamins B and D deficiency. If you have BUPA they may offer these tests.

Other posters may disagree with me but I am going to merge a few options into a suggested approach: Ask her to do 4 things tomorrow:

  1. Get up and fully dressed by 12:00. Yes, that’s late but she will never achieve 8,9,10 etc.
  2. Go out for a 10 minute walk before 16:00. The daylight and exercise will help her.
  3. To spend no more than 10-15 minutes collecting all the dirty dishes in her room and bringing them down to the kitchen by 19:00. Say you will help if she asks. Note: If you do help make no comment about anything else as it will be counter productive.
  4. Do something fun, ideally something that makes her laugh.
Each day ask her to do 1 and 2 and add in a different 10-15 minute task with the aim of cleaning her room and bathroom over a period of time. Do not try to get her to do it all in one day it will overwhelm her. It may take a week+ to do the bathroom e.g. 1. Sink 2. Ceiling 3. Bath/shower 4. Door & woodwork 5. Cupboard 6. Toilet 7. Surfaces 8. Floor. Essentially micro manage it for her by breaking it down. Once the bathroom is done give her the task one day each week of cleaning the bathroom e.g. Monday’s task is bathroom.

Each week bring her get up time forward by 15 minutes.
If she wants to do more, let her but do not let her blitz it as it will exhaust her and put her back.
When you think she is ready add in a second 15 minute activity focused on the future e.g. writing her bucket list, her long term goals etc.
Others have given good advice which you can bring into the daily tasks.

You will also need a carrot and stick approach e.g. no wifi until task is done, coffee and cake if she does 10 minute walk 5 days out of 7.

Kennykenkencat · 27/03/2023 12:41

ThatFraggle · 27/03/2023 11:05

Sorry pp.
I thought AD was Asperger's as they had used ADHD elsewhere in their post and I didn't think DD's sociable bubbliness fit in with Autism or Asperger's.

She's bubbly and outgoing though, a social butterfly. Does that fit into ADD or autism

ADD is attention deficit disorder. It is now all ADHD

ASD is Autism Spectrum Disorder

Definitely look into ADHD as your Dd sounds very much like my Ds and myself.

RoseBucket · 27/03/2023 12:43

@ThatFraggle what did you mean by you’ll pay for her travel regardless of her grades?

Isthisexpected · 27/03/2023 12:45

She's saying she wants independence but I think she needs the opposite. More hands on focused mothering, building her up a bit at a time. She sounds completely overloaded and feeling powerless to make even the smallest change.

User4891 · 27/03/2023 12:48

You need to set firm boundaries that this isn't an acceptable way of coping with whatever she's going through but I don't think you're going to solve this just booting her up the backside either.

She mostly just sounds fed up and miserable at the situation. She's plenty mature enough to understand what a rubbish situation you and partner are in but completely overwhelmed how to go about escaping it. Unfortunately though she's probably making escaping it about as dificult as can be. Have you ever acknowledged how difficult it is for her to witness you in an unhappy relationship? How do you ensure that she has personal space to get some respite? Does she have the time to discuss any thoughts/concerns that she has on any meaningful level. I like the idea of taking her somewhere a bit off grid with some of her favourite food and see if you can gently get to the root of the problem.

Could she also be really feeling the pressure of school and success? It sounds like with the best intentions she's been under a lot of pressure to perform. I think you need to go back to basics and make very clear that you just want her to be happy. However, make clear that it's also unacceptable to just do nothing. You will support her and help where you can but sitting around all day in a messy bedroom isn't the answer. She must address any low mood with the right interventions eg talking therapies. She must do something to get her out of the house be it a part time job or voluntary work. You have to approach this gently but if you approach it too permissively then she'll be like this til she's 40. Trust me I've seen it happen.

I hope you can get to the root of things and help her out xx

Summerpetal · 27/03/2023 12:55

How long has she been taking the antidepressant
she must of actually gone and talked to a doctor to get them
so she is clearly wanting to feel better

are you sure. She is actually talking them
if so ,they can ,especially Prozac take 12 weeks to start working
maybe the dose needs upping ,maybe a different one needs trying
ask her if she will go to the doctor ,if you book it ,and you go together,ask her if you can both see her doctor together as you are so worried about her and just want her to feel better .
there is adult mental health team ,if she will engage ,she’s engaged enough for antidepressants,so you never know ..
I expect she’s not happy with the step dad ,it’s hard living in blended families as a child ..very hard ..I had a step dad and step mum ,hated the pair of them ,and under the surface of family life they hated me .
i wonder if you end the relationship,she may improve,I wouldn’t be surprised

ThirtyTwoGoingUnder · 27/03/2023 12:59

Living in an atmosphere where two people clearly dislike each other can take a huge toll on a grown adult let alone a teenager undergoing one of the toughest academic years of her life so far. The reason she wants out of your house and her own flat is clearly because this atmosphere is affecting her. It can't be nice to have been left by your dad and to see him playing happy families whilst you're miserable and under pressure. On top of that, if her friends are from happy families, she's probably seeing a lot of what she's missing out on and it's getting her down. It sounds like you need to address your relationship and you'll resolve the issue. Maybe have a frank discussion with her about it and see if this is the root cause 💐

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 27/03/2023 13:01

Stopped her pocket money? She is 18, let her make her own choices and support her through them.

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