To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

A year spent working in Mac Donald’s here in the U.K. or Ireland or wherever you are, will not help. It’s just stalling and wasting his time, and not contributing to him growing up or working things out for himself.

But a year spent in Spain working in a cafe, or a winery, or a bar or whatever will get him fluent in Spanish, which you said he likes. It will put him in a new environment with new people and new ideas, and the penny may well drop about what he wants to do with himself.

This might be easier said than done post Brexit, but you could research it for him.

I think I agree with you Op - going to Uni to do a subject you are not particularly interested in (and me paying for it!) just to have 3 years of partying is not great.
I am having the same discussion with my DD- she is looking at apprenticeships aswell - is that an option for your DS?
When my DS went to Uni I encouraged him to do a subject that would lead to a job.

Also she studied Social Anthropology, which she loved, but which has absolutely no relevance to anything she did subsequently as far as I can tell!

If he enjoys Spanish, that's great, OP. Studying another language to degree level is very impressive to me.

I think studying at degree level is likely to help him find his particular passion in any subject. A degree is a great stepping stone for whatever he wants to move on to. It is great that he wants to do it.

I wonder how many posters on this thread have sent (and paid for) their DC to attend uni in the last 3 years?

DN is just finishing his final year. He is glad he did his degree but was disappointed with the 'uni experience'. Lectures and classes all online. Next to no one in halls or campus. There was hardly any socialising. A lot of money has been spent on accommodation when he could have stayed at home. My manager's son has started uni this year and reporting similar at a different uni.

I think the lifestyle and experience is not what it once was. Which makes sense seeing as it costs so much now to go. It sorts out the time wasters who just want a three year bender bank rolled by mum and dad.

I was like your DS. I went to uni with no clear path and did history. I struggled to get a graduate job (not cut throat enough, didn't want to move miles away). I joined the public sector and I think my degree has helped open doors at interviews etc. But not having one probably wouldn't have held me back either. Lots of people my age and rank have worked their way up without. It is only now I am in my 40s that my degree has been a necessity and being used to some extent. Those 3 years at uni were amazing, but I don't think they were worth the money TBH. And my parents spent a lot less than parents nowadays would. I still got a grant!

DH left high school at 16 with no qualifications. He worked manual minimum eage jobs before he studied to do an NVQ and got his Class 1 HGV. Needless to say he earns a lot more than I will ever will in my career path and can walk out of one job on Wednesday to walk into another on Thursday.

We will be encouraging our DC to look at all roads, not just uni. We already have DS1 struggling academically while I think DS2 will be capable if he wants to.

I agree with you OP. I am.in the minority everywhere of people who think uni is a waste of time unless you have a career path that needs a degree. Especially going straight from school. Kids end up in tens of thousands of pounds of debt (no, it's not a "graduate tax", it is a debt that they will pay every month for the rest of their working lives, and every time they get a better job or a pay rise, that payment will go up, with most people never having any way to pay it off ever)

How are all these kids paying for uni? Us parents are supposed to fund them to go get pissed for 3 years? Potentially at the expense of other children at home (if my eldest goes to uni then we will be expected to top up his loan, we don't have this money spare so it'll be cutting back on everything for us at home, including money spent on the other two kids)

I went to uni. Have never had a graduate job. Am in debt forever for nothing. Have zero friends from my uni days, was basically left with debt, mental illness and regret. So i suppose it's hard for me to be impartial! But yeh I am pretty anti the university-as-standard approach that middle class families all seem to have. I don't think we should be pandering to kids who just don't want to get a job and instead want to live off loans and bank of mum and dad for 3 years.

What’s bizarre is you accusing me of shutting you down, no I didn’t, I disagreed with you and gave my opinion, just two short sentences. As a professor, you should welcome opinions differing from yours. You’re the one trying to shut down anyone disagreeing with you. You were threatened by two little short sentences from me? Very weird. That young man wants to go to university. It’s his life, not yours. Not his mother’s. I think she should be supportive that he even wants to go.

So encourage him to do a Spanish degree at uni, I’m assuming that will include a year abroad (did when I was at uni) and having a 2nd language like Spanish is no bad thing.

many companies such as global banks would see that degree as an advantage in post studying applications.

I Just googled ‘vacancies compulsory Spanish’ and a whole list of jobs came up on Indeed that required Spanish. This graduate role seems pretty good and while obviously not something your son can apply for now, shows where his future may go. Just because he doesn’t apply himself too strongly now, doesn’t mean he won’t throughout his time at uni.
Graduate Spanish speaking role

How is it always better to go than not go? That’s far from my experience. All the degree educated striking professionals on a hell of a lot less money than a lot of people who never went to uni would probably disagree with you too.

I completely agree with you.

Personally think a year out is a great idea. I had one and changed my mind re subject. Younger son had one. If he likes Spanish would suggest work to save and then travel in a Spanish speaking area.
Would he be open for applying for a differed place so he knows he’s got a place after the year?

Not RTFT

But Spanish is a great degree. Learning other languages is a useful skill, and he will have the chance to do a year aboard in Spain which would be amazing for him.

Im all for university and see it as a chance to stay young and enjoy life for a bit longer - no harm in that. Life can get pretty shit so I think make the most of it while you can.

I worked throughout the whole of uni and during the summers, which he can do too.

yes he might be better off financially if he didn’t go to university, a few of my friends who didn’t go have done VERY well for themselves. Just like some of my friends that did go have, and there’s also people who haven’t don’t so well.

I think uni opens up a lot of opportunities for people through the connections you make, and it allows you to boarded your horizons and learn there’s more to life that just your hometown

The only thing I’d say about the student experience’ is he’s so h to ping it’s no more of a waste than if he went travelling or working in a job that isn’t what he’ll do for life in the long run. It all helps make us- you’re out in your own, away from home, and it could potentially show him what he does or doesn’t want to do. Everything you do in life is a risk- there’s as much chance he figures it out in university as working (where he might be bitter in the future that he didn’t get to do the whole university thing). Personally I’d say there’s less focused people who are heading in a specific direction at that age- I did science and a HUGE percentage of our class ended up taking totally different paths!!

It's a tricky one, OP.

Ultimately, you need to let your son decide.

I would sit down with him and look at the reality of the debt he will incur from going, it's really more of a tax now that he will pay for most of his working life.

He needs to understand that and balance it with the benefits he gets from going to uni.

Lots of young people do go to uni not really knowing what they want to do and that's OK, as long as he will actually finish the course.

Coming out with a third in a humanities subject because he just wanted to party is really not worth the effort or money.

Just talk it all through with him and let him make the decision - it's his life.

I would encourage him to apply but also to explore other options.

He is best to go through the UCAS system and get a place somewhere. But he could also look at apprenticeship options. There are many that are not your traditional apprenticeship now.

If he was a more commited student I'd say it doesn't really matter be doesn't know what he wants to do but the combination of both is a problem.

I'd encourage Spanish as the best option. He can take electives alongside it. But a languages degree is not usually an easy ride.

@Goinganon321 I agree with you. Your son wants to go for the student lifestyle. Not to study. Are you expected to top up his fees as well?? If so then yes a year out to discover what he wants to do is better in my opinion.
I know a lot of people who have been to uni, got into lots of debt and working in jobs that do no require a degree. They took subjects such as psychology, history and english.
The people who have done better are apprenticeship style courses where they have done their degree around work.
I went to uni and studied for nursing so it was specific for me

My son does the bare minimum but is clever. I've suggested a degree level apprenticeship. Even he says a degree would be a waste of time and money because he wouldn't bother with it properly.

Spain does not want or need unqualified 18 year olds "teaching English". The only realistic route open to non-EU citizens to teach here (working as conversation assistants in a government scheme) requires a degree.

I assume he'll be applying later this year? He may have an idea what he wants to study by then.
Wait and see.

He could look at apprenticeship- I work in a huge financial institution and they do apprenticeship where the apprentices study for a degree ( paid for by work ) whilst working in the business and get paid around 20k with a job at the end of it. So he has experience, a.job and a degree with no debt at the end of it. If.he then wants to do another degree he still can

The thing about saying apprenticeships are just as good is they often are (or are better) at the start of your career, but then in many roles you hit a ceiling where for the next promotion you are expected to have a degree. Or you end up in one specific niche and it is harder to change careers.

Having a traditional degree still does give you options that the alternatives don't. Yes, not everyone will use it, but the soft skills are often still very useful.

Language graduates are often in demand and businesses want to employ them! And as they are less popular, there aren't as many other language grads to compete with!

If he wants to go, then you can't really stop him anyway. If you're not willing to support him financially then make that clear - that may force him into a gap year anyway.

But honestly your post comes across like to are disappointed in him, and he will probably be picking up on that, and therefore want to leave home as quickly as possible.

I personally think it’s nuts to talk a kid out of going to uni in favour of getting a job in McDonald’s, and I’d be really hurt if my mum felt that was a more appropriate path for me; despite my motivations for going to uni.

I agree with this. University isn’t for everyone for sure and plenty of people do well without it.

But seeking to actively push a child who wants to go and has the academic capacity to go to spend a year working In McDonald’s instead with no clear alternative path seems a bit self destructive tbh.

People with degrees earn more through the course of their lives. Of course there are outliers but if you can afford it and he can cope with it why wouldn’t you support him? It’s also about so much more than academics. It’s about independence in a relatively safe environment, making friends, having new experiences etc. i think your attitude is quite limiting and I think if your son listens to you he will come to regret it.

@MysteryBelle you do realise part of a parents role is to guide, not just agree with everything a child wishes to do? OP has made it clear she doubts her sons motivations for going to university. Any parents who passively consents to their child making a huge decision with enormous financial implications without at least exploring that is a pretty poor parent in my view.

And for what's it worth....I didn't say OP's son shouldn't go to uni. I said I wouldn't encourage my own children to, especially in this circumstance. Also, two sentences telling me I'm wrong isn't providing a balanced counter argument.

I just don’t think DC should go to uni and incur debt etc unless they are enthused by degree course and want to study
But this is par for the course. Same for 2x generations above him

No STEM! Off with his head!