To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

@Goinganon321 possibly posting in AIBU rather than in the HE chat won’t garner the responses you were hoping for. I also think other posters don’t understand how much parents are expected to contribute to the cost of their kids attending University. Assuming that is your financial position, and that he has an appropriate level of freedom for partying now, I think it’s reasonable to expect some sort of commitment for your financial investment in this other than ‘I fancy partying’. However, a lot of kids don’t know what they want to do, don’t express themselves very well and it seems very overwhelming for your people to make an informed choice when the careers advice available to them (other than go to Uni)is so poor. He won’t know about Degree Apprenticeships or Apprenticeships if no one talks to him about them. Or the basic impact on finances of the loans he’ll be taking out etc and has to pay them back. Maybe try and get him to a careers fair or similar so he understands what else is available and also lay out what 40 years of paying back a loan looks like? Or the fact that if he goes and drops out because he didn’t consider the course choice carefully enough that he’ll still have to pay for the loans for the tuition etc for that year, which is an expensive mistake to make.

Have a look at graduate careers, a lot will require a generic degree. Law, accountancy, civil service.

@Goinganon321

my god daughter has a degree in Arabic and Spanish, her first year after graduation she had a job with the British Council teaching English in Madrid.
She is now in Dubai working as a business analyst.

Language degrees can lead to good careers.

She didn’t study Arabic until she went to uni but found it relatively easy to pick up.

Exactly what I was going to suggest..that or teaching English in Spain. All the exhilarating excitement of living away from home and forging your own path - without running up too much debt. He would know after a few months if it was for him. If it wasn't then he could easily apply for the next year's uni intake.

You've got some replies that appear deliberately obtuse. Why would it be good for him to go to uni studying something he doesn't particularly care for? He will incur lots of student debt and walk out with a degree that isn't particularly helpful in securing a job. Yes he may well build up transferable skills but that is only if he engages with the course, turns up to lectures and does the work. I often think it's harder if you don't have many in person lectures or tutorials because you really need to stay motivated to keep on top of the course material.

Op I wasn't sure what to do at that age either but had a rough idea my career would be science based. I took a year out and worked in Tesco. It meant I was giving keep to my parents, was learning to budget, manage my own money and whilst full time wages seemed a lot for me to enjoy whilst living at home I soon realised that it wouldn't be enough to support getting a flat, paying bills and living the kind of life I wanted. I then really took the time to research courses at different unis, did work experience in my chosen field and when I did go to uni the following year was super motivated and happy on my degree.

My parents interestingly enough would have preferred I went to uni in the first instance because they were concerned I would be swayed by having an income, which would seem like loads of money whilst living at home with no real responsibilities. This isn't a dig at those that work in supermarkets, my mum does. It did help me get a part time job whilst at uni though and that was great for when I had post uni interviews because they like to see how you manage time effectively.

Why not suggest travelling as part of a gap year rather than just working. However if he wants uni that is what he should do, just help support him to find a course he likes the look of.

Yabu!

University doesn't just provide education on the subject you study, it gives a teenager time to learn and mature and if he gets a degree it improves his employability and likelihood of progression in a job.

One of my sister's did an artsy general degree, she worked in a hotel to fund it, after uni she continued in hospitality but her uni experience gave her certain skills and ualified her for more senior roles. She ended up managing a chain of hotels and now manages the HR dept of a multinational company all through in work progression. At the centre of her ability to progress early on though was her degree from a good university.

Also BBB at a level is a good grade prediction, maybe he'd do better if you could find some positivity for his intelligence?

Because you had parental support you were able to do that, my dad was an absolute waster and my mum was at home with 5 of us, I worked 2 part time jobs on top of school to contribute,not only did I have to immediately go to university but also to move away or I would have been caught in the trap of continued expectations to fund my family's expenses where my dad spent his meagre income like we didn't exist and would never have managed to leave a full time income to study.

You had uni supportive parents, the kid in this op doesn't, he has a mum who wants maximum income minimum outgoings from as soon as possible unles he's going to be a doctor.

There are other options than "minimum wage job" or "random degree at Uni". It's quite normal for an 18yo not to know what they want to do, they need help to figure out a viable path, explore career options, what type of jobs they can expect after a specific degree, what transferable skills they already have that could help them...

I'd definitely discourage "going to uni for the experience", it's a waste of money, but there is a compromise in asking him to actually put the effort in building a career plan, and supporting him in doing so.

I think wanting a uni experience is a good enough reason. He wants it as part of his journey in life. You'll find that many people end up working in fields not related to their degree of study anyway.

I would, however, impress upon him the financial costs of going to university and let him make an informed decision.

@Forgooodnesssakenow she is a supportive mother. She doesn't want him to go to uni just for a piss up and to incur lots of debts. I'm also not going to apologise for having supportive parents. We were a low income family and I was the first to go to uni. My parents couldn't help me apply or figure out how to, I did that all on my own. I did a dgree with 40 hours contact time and still had a part time job because they couldn't help beyond housing me. Just because my situation wasn't like yours re parents doesn't mean I had it easy.

I actively hope my children feel this way as adults, I didn't work as hard as I did in a career based subject for them to have their choices as adults limited. We work for decades, that few years in the beginning to transition to adulthood SHOULD be an entitlement in my opinion if they want it.

You definitely shouldn't apologise for having supportive parents, that's a wonderful thing. In my experience and that of those I am friends with at 40, those few years at uni were more than worth the debt for the education and life experience and on the whole those of us with degrees outearn those without hugely.

He is young, if he wants the student experience then just give him your blessing. He will make a decision in his own time and that doesn't mean it will be within your timescale. You sound as if you've no faith in him, which is a shame. My parents tried to put me off Uni but I'm glad I ignored them. I was very academic but didn't like my school so only did bare minimum really. So it could have appeared I was lazy. I was absolutely fine when I got to Uni tho. It gave me purpose. I'm not working in the field I studied for but having a degree definitely helped me. Both my DCs went to Uni too.

I kinda agree with you OP. So many people get a degree just because they don't really know what else to do and then end up saddled with a load of debt and a mediocre job that they could have done straight from school. Unfortunately, they're adults so they have to make their own decisions.

Going against the grain here from personal experience but I'm not sure it will give you a solution OP.

My brother was a straight A student, until A levels. He became distracted by the social life when he went from a single sex to mixed sixth form and his grades tanked.

There was never a question, in his mind, whether he was going to uni. It was happening. Like your son he had no set idea of what degree to take, and it became very clear that he just wanted to go "for the experience".

He really struggled, and his uni work was sort of fitted around his social life rather than the other way around. He refused part time work to give him some structure, only doing seasonal work in a supermarket in the holidays he bothered to come home for.

He was broke and failing. He finished the three years with a 2:2 while his peers were flying because they wanted to.

He then had the bright idea of staying to do a masters. Borrowed more money. His friends were going off and landing London jobs on good wages with their firsts and I think he didn't want to fail in the job market.

He got kicked out of the masters after a few months for failing to keep up. He walked away with basically a worthless degree and £60k of student loans.

I'm not saying a 2:2 is a worthless degree, but the field he chose was highly competitive and he had lofty ambitions of walking into a 50k a year job, without doing any work.

It sounds like this is what you're worried about happening, but tbh I'm not sure how you can stop it. If I could go back in time, I can't think of any way I could have persuaded DB not to go, or if he went, to actually put the work in/choose the right degree. He was blinkered that uni was as you say an entitlement but imo was just going so he could make new friends and party. An expensive lesson.

I sense a huge disappointment from OP that he isn’t studying a STEM subject. This is not the only way to a successful career. I know plenty of people with well paid, fulfilling jobs who didn’t study STEM; lawyers, journalists, headteachers, civil servants. If he wants to go to uni, support him. He’ll do a lot of growing up and probably leave with a better idea of where he’s heading in life.

He wants to go.

If he studies Spanish he might become a teacher or have a Spanish speaking service or travel business.
He might also see what the others are studying and take a fancy to another subject.
Let him go to uni. . Encourage him to get a job for the Summer and at holidays.

He doesn’t have to take STEM. If you push him into subjects he hates of course he will not do well. It’s important for him to study what he’s interested in, he may not get job in exactly his subject but the degree will help and as pp said, not everybody has to do STEM, and can still find employment. Better to study what interests him and not be miserable in a job he hates for decades just to please your idea of what he should be.

Do you have a good relationship with your brother?

My father was from a working class background - he got into Cambridge to do English in the 50s - it was a life changing experience and he had a lifelong love of literature, plays and poetry.

That said - outside if the very best universities - the explosion in higher education plus it's commercialisation has led to a complete devaluation of humanities-based degrees. Even at Russell group universities the majority of students have little interest in their subject and get very little from their courses. They now end up in massive debt and remember university for the parties and social life. People who aren't passionate about their non-stem subject really shouldn't be going.

OP did you go to uni?

Wanting to go for the experience isn't a bad thing in itself, he's likely to find something he likes and flourish. I ended up changing what I was doing in the first semester. If you genuinely want him to go then you should encourage it. He's unlikely to go a year later once he starts making money (however little that is) and if his friends are established there doing their own thing. Only you know your son, so perhaps that is why you seem to be so against it. Personally I'd do anything that would increase better outcomes for my children

I see where you're coming from OP.

I took a gap year and went travelling. I applied to uni during the gap year. That meant my gap year came to an end - I could easily have dragged it out otherwise!

Is this something you'd consider or he'd consider? I did it alone but plenty of people did something like Bunac where they help you get settled and meet people. It's basically a work and party year and just being free.

The impact it had was that when I started uni I was a year older than those who were away from home for the first time and didn't get caught up in all the "just moved away from home" drama, which involved a lot of partying like you've never been free to party before.

Once at uni I also changed my degree - not radically, like from humanities to stem, but I went stuck with my initial course selection.

One thing I'd say I'd be careful you don't give him the impression that his subjects and his predicted results aren't worth as much as stem ones of higher marks. You may have a point, but if the goal is for him to pick an area of study that he is enthusiastic about, anything that implies he's not quite good enough is counterproductive. Like I said in the beginning, I get your point, but from what you've written in your posts I'm not entirely sure you feel supportive of his academic choices or abilities. It sounds like you'd prefer he was able to do if he interested in STEM subjects that align with a particular career path. Maybe you don't my point is that you may unintentionally be giving him that impression, as it's the impression a few people on here also have.

I agree, you don't appear particularly supportive or to value a degree. If he's just going to uni to party for a few years, well obviously that's stupid but he sounds like he wants the whole experience. If it's just partying then he's not going to get past the first semester anyway. If he studies a subject he enjoys, it won't be a bad thing as it will lead to other things.