To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

Not every child has an aptitude for STEM subjects. Your son has a MFL, one that is spoken in Europe, South & North America, so if he continues with Spanish it will help any future career. You could investigate degree apprenticeships, where he would join a firm, earn, work, go to uni one day a week and get a degree at the end (fully funded by the firm).

@LysHastighed or another Spanish speaking country then? There's quite a few. There's large parts of the USA where Spanish is the main language.
I would have thought that because of the tourist industry visas would be available for seasonal workers from the UK (holiday reps etc). Leaving the EU doesn't mean anyone from the UK can't go and work there.

The maximum student maintenance loan is up to £9,978 outside of London. If your DC was only entitled to the minimum loan of £4524 (2022 figures) you would have to make up the shortfall every year.

How many parents on here would willingly give their DC who only wants to go to university to party at least £5454 every year (and probably more as accommodation is often about £6.5k a year)?

The other option is for him to go and make up the shortfall on his maintenance loan by working, as many students have to.

Because the other Spanish speaking countries just let anyone in to work?
To get an employee a working visa in the EU you need to demonstrate that you can’t find an EU national with the same skills. That doesn’t work for unskilled labour at all and it doesn’t work well for teaching English because they can’t specifically recruit native speakers (it’s discriminatory and many North Europeans speak native-like English and are more knowledgeable about grammar) and even if they could they’d offer to Irish people first, then as a third country national you compete with North Americans, of whom there are many. The opportunities for this kind of work have really been drastically reduced.
A lot of the advice on here is from people who have never lived abroad and don’t speak any other languages fluently or at all, and it shows.

@LysHastighed ok ok....it was just a suggestion. Personally I don't know much about Visas so can't really comment on whether it's do-able or not.
Even so - I still think it's absolutely crazy to pay/get a loan for what could eventually be up to £27 thousand for a "lifestyle" experience.
Infact I it's not just crazy - it's ridiculous.

This thread been bizarre. Note to self : do not post on MN in early hours!

It's only bizarre because not everyone is agreeing with you. I find your comment about no STEM really depressing. You sound like Rishi Sunak!

He could go into things like journalism, law, teaching, social policy, business with Spanish. To be fair you can do legal apprenticeships nowadays. But he could do a Spanish degree and then go into law afterwards.

I can see why you would want him to consider things carefully but not many of us knew at 16 what we wanted to do.

@converseandjeans the problem is having to spend ££££ to find out "what you want to be".
That is not a sensible thing to do. There are plenty of ways to have a interesting social life, learn independence, meet new people etc without having to pay £££ or be in debt for the rest of your life.

I don’t directly use my degree now. No one has ever asked to see my degree certificate. My degree rarely gets more than a few seconds consideration in interviews 20 years later.

But I learnt a lot, experienced a lot and going to uni took me places in life that I would not have gone if I’d gone straight into an entry level job and stayed local with the same group of people I grew up with.

Sometimes I think I wish I’d studied something different but I only think that due to many years of life experiences and self awareness.

A year doing admin or junior level jobs won’t give enough insight into the world of work to know clearly what to do with the rest of their life. There is also a chance of losing momentum and not going to uni at all.

Sometimes the best thing is to set off and see what happens along the way and uni is a strong step - albeit an expensive one.

Neither of my girls went to uni because they didn't know what to do either. Both did a bit of waitressing etc for about 18 months then took a gap year, came home and got entry level jobs with big companies where there'd be good career prospects.
Both are now receiving external training paid for by their employer, have had a few quick promotions, and in their mid twenties, both are earning around £35k. Unlike their degreed friends they have no loans to pay back either.

There's far too much emphasis on university from 6th forms because it's a mark of success to get a high percentage of pupils to go on to higher education.

Has your son thought about law? Not a STEM subject but something you can do with any subject base, indeed you don’t even need to do a law degree (a conversion year is available for non-law graduates). Law firms love language students. Plus if he is keen to travel and use his languages at a future point, there are lots of opportunities abroad for English law qualified lawyers.

Personally I loved University, both studying and the social side. I have only got the jobs that I have had, and lived where I have lived, because of my degree.

I agree that University is not the be all and end all and it is certainly not right for everyone. Indeed one of the most successful people I know (if success is measured by wealth) did not go to University and is not particularly academic. However it does provide a good base. Better to be undecided about what career to pursue with a degree in your back pocket, than undecided with no degree.

Good luck to your son. I am sure he will love whichever choice he makes.

A degree opens up more options in the future with regards to emmigration. Many countries award applicants more "points" for higher education making it less of a barrier to get a visa. Worth considering now we have left the EU.

The majority of the trades are consistently in high demand and also carry a lot of points towards a visa.

Actually advising someone gets a job or an apprenticeship when they have no idea what they want to do is much worse advice....Oh, and I say that as a qualified careers adviser who specialises in post 18 options so I'm more than qualified to offer that advice

In that case I am worried about the advice our young people are getting. What is the OP's son meant to do then, just hang around playing computer games?

Do most of the "let him go" posters actually understand that the OP will be expected to make up the maintenance loan

So patronising. The OP's son is an adult and can work to support himself if the OP chooses not to.

Oh and I have studied MFL and lived and worked overseas. But that was before Brexit. I know that living and working overseas is much harder for British passport holders now (hope the Brexiteers are pleased with themselves) but that does not mean that doing a MFL degree is a bad idea.

You would be surprised at the number of posters on here and on the WIWIKAU Facebook page who don't know this @lieselotte

Most non STEM degrees don’t have much contact time. Your DS could easily get a part time job while he is a student to get work experience and top up his loan.

I can't believe it's so controversial to suggest a teenager to have a gap year when they don't have a clue on what to study. Nobody is forcing anybody or talking anyone out if it. And ops son has mentioned a vague interest in Spanish cause they are OK with it but we're now planning his career in Venezuela 'cause spanish is an OK subject to study. I dont think it's a necessity to study STEM and he should be going to uni if he wants but I don't think the thought to work for a year is outrageous.

Exactly Rewis. DS mentioned Spanish in passing for want of anything else (and he does the bare minimum for A-level Spanish - certainly no super-curricular stuff!). But cue Mumsnet suggesting he should read Spanish go into tourism/move to Ecuador.

What strikes me though is that the uni lecturers and admissions tutors who have kindly contributed to this thread overwhelmingly agree with me - but MN has disregarded their advice. I certainly haven't! Thank you all though because this has been an eye-opener!

This is not a problem with degrees but a problem with your brother being a spoilt brat. I had no option but to work while at uni, there was no other money. Your brother was overly coddled by the sounds of it.

Possibly because many of us worked our entire time at uni to subsidise ourselves. I think o would be reasonable to say he needs a part time job to contribute financially. But not to say he shouldn't go.

I am with you OP in many ways.
i would not be prepared to finance ( and lets face it that is what you will be doing) a child to have three yrs of fun /party/social experience if they are really not putting in any effort now with their a levels.
Plus if he really is not trying hard and going to get 3 Bs he is not going to be getting on a prestigious course and a top uni.
So basically debt for 3 yrs of fun ..that is ok, on one hand, as i believe they need some growning-up time, but as parents are now expected to fund this, i can see why there is expectation of some return on our investments.
However instead of working in maccies or stacking shelves you could suggest a more interesting and adventurous 'gap year' , thus giving him valuable life experience, time to mature but also fabulous fun times...there are jobs all across the world for kids on gap years, where he we will meet other young people, have fun etc.
Maybe try talking to him about the other 'experience ' he could have rather then just sayign 'get a menial job ' while you think about your future.

@Hongkongsuey you've misinterpreted my post completely. I've made some suggestions for some alternatives to working in McDs if he takes a year out. If he's set on going to uni then he'll go. Perhaps I'm mistaken but there's an implication that he's not particularly 'academic' or focused. Maybe he's not considered other alternatives. I've given a few which I advised mum to 'suggest'. It might just be that he wants to break free. The best way to learn a language is to immerse yourself in it so going out for a season seems both an adventure and a learning experience.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with open discussion. Pressure is something different. I guess too it depends how independent he is. Seems there's an expectation that parents financially support their adult children. If they plan to do that I think they're entitled to input.

Maybe try talking to him about the other 'experience ' he could have rather then just sayign 'get a menial job ' while you think about your future.

Very good advice here from @Theredjellybean and so many others. I will encourage DS to plan a great gap year which combines both work (to help fund it - maybe even at Maccy D's!!!😂) and exciting travel. Hopefully over the course of it he will reach some conclusions and can then go to uni (if he still wants to) with a bit of enthusiasm for a degree subject, not just a social life! Thank you everyone!

He could do voluntary work (perhaps abroad) with other young people; living together and having a youthful social life is not limited to university students.

A year doing admin or junior level jobs won’t give enough insight into the world of work to know clearly what to do with the rest of their life.

He might realise that he never wants to work in an office; or a city; or he might find he enjoys shift work more than 9 to 5, ; wants a job that's always onthe move, or outdoors, or he loves/hates factory work; enjoys customer service.

There's a great deal to be learnt from very junior roles (and, just the process of being a year older, earning his own money, meeting a wider range of ages and backgrounds than he knew at school.