To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

I think YABU for quite a few reasons.

• There's plenty of value in non-STEM subjects, find it very strange you think otherwise
• Being a year older than the others at uni is still a weird experience - if you've gone on some big exciting gap year less so, but even that is rarer these days. At 18/19, a year's age difference (and the life experience of having worked) will feel bigger - I can still remember which people in my college at uni were a year older.
• He's just delaying getting his independent life 'started' and will probably feel resentful of it when his friends are all experiencing uni life and have moved away and he's alone at home working a boring job he's got no intention of staying in
• He should be making this decision for himself
• Plenty of people switch degree subjects - if he really hates what he's doing, he can do that
• Plenty of people work in careers that are nothing to do with their degree subject - most places care that you have a degree and that's it. Unless you're going into a career that needs a specific degree which he evidently isn't as he doesn't know what he wants to do
• Having the experience of university is a good enough reason to go

Being a year older than the others at uni is still a weird experience

Utter nonsense. That really, really isn't true.

Maybe he could do a course that has a flexible subject like business?
That way he can get a degree that can be used for lots of different kinds of jobs as business study has a lot of transferable skills.
Or he could use it to set up his own business in the future.

Suggest he defers n gets a job until he's learnt to drive. Maybe he'll be tempted to stay earning and get a car.
Why does it need to be Maccy D. Try NHS modern apprenticeships - lots of corperate openings in Comms with support for business qualifications.
If I wanted to learn Spanish....I'd go to Spain. Anything, bar work, tour rep...ibiza part animal? Just immerse yourself in it. Again, defer. Sept to April, save save save, out for the season...back for next year (if you haven't changed your mind).

If my child wanted to go to university, I would never advise them to go and work in a bar in Spain instead. This poster has no idea what’s involved in a MFL degree. The main thing is that this person has expressed a desire to go to uni. Random suggestions based on jobs that posters think are better alternatives than what he wants-why? I can understand she wants him to defer a year-and that’s great for people who want to do that-but this kid doesn’t. It could be that he decides that’s what he’s going to do by the time he’s in upper sixth-but that should come from him.

Has he already applied? The UCAS deadline closed in January so universities do not have to consider his application at this stage.

His degree does not have to be a degree in a subject he has already studied. Many degree schemes ask for entry requirements only in terms of points, and not actual certain subjects. For example, to study Law at Bristol, the typical A level offer is A*AA but it does not state that this needs to be in certain subjects, Business in Birmingham asks for AAB and required subjects are only GCSE Maths & English, Journalism in Swansea is BBB. That is not to say that subjects are completely irrelevant but A levels in humanities based subjects will demonstrate a skill set that opens up many possibilities to him. Following graduation, he would be best following a graduate scheme - again this may not be the same title as his degree, but having the degree opens up big opportunities. For example, the General Management, Finance, Policy & Strategy and HR graduate schemes for NHS all ask for “any degree” at 2:2. There is absolutely nothing wrong with A levels and degrees in humanities.

Options other than university are degree apprenticeships whereby the employer will pay for the degree to be done alongside you working for them. This doesn’t mean a boring life - the other degree apprentices are likely to be around the same age so they do still get the social aspect that university brings, just slightly different. Some universities such as University of South Wales also offer schemes for employment & a degree alongside each other - look at Network 75 as an example. Lots of my students are also applying for these opportunities after completing UCAS applications and will decide later.

The advice I give my own students is to consider the costs. If you do want to go, consider it a graduate tax (with tuition fee loans of £9000+ each year alone, not to mention maintenance loans), they leave with a huge amount to repay which may never pay off. They need to do it because they want to do it and not because everyone else is going (which is hard when you’re 17/18). Look at all the options and consider which is best for you, apply to them all and make your choice later - absolutely nothing to lose and nothing is set in stone.

(I am a sixth form tutor - happy to help further if I can).

I started uni (for the second time) at 20; I definitely felt noticeably older than other freshers (especially because I chose to live in halls of residence)

Like a pp I am from a family who have all gone to uni - it was expected for us and I went and did my best subject at A level. My parents were as supportive of going for the experience as the actual degree (even though they did STEM and I did English ;)).

But that was 30 years ago and none of us came out with mountains of debt (pre fees). I had a good time and was pleased I went but I actually preferred/had more fun once I started work. My job is not connected to my degree at all and never has been other than doing well in the literature round at the Christmas quiz.

What is the uni experience now though - I was talking to someone who works in a big RG uni back office function and she said col, and the pandemic has really impacted student life. A lot done virtually and high drop out rates.

My own kids are early teens and whilst one is definitely uni bound (medicine or medical adjacent) the other wants to do engineering of some kind and likes the idea of learning and earning together.

The main thing is that it's his decision not yours. If he wants to go then that's his choice.

Non STEM subjects are still very valuable - the majority of uni courses are non STEM so I find your logic on that a little odd..

Let him go and have this experience and get a good level of education. Don't make him stay back and miss out, I can't imagine how sad that would make him feel to be left behind.

I think wanting the uni experience is valid.

My youngest won’t go (which is the right decision for him at this moment, maybe that will change, maybe not) and I agree with you about the debt etc - in that I think you need to want to go to incur debt. But if he wants to go for the uni experience that’s a good reason.

Not sure why you are so down on humanities or languages (written as someone who has worked in academia in both science & social sciences).

Do most of the "let him go" posters actually understand that the OP will be expected to make up the maintenance loan?

Would they be as happy to let their DC go to university and fund their three years of partying?

Do they know that students only get 4 years of funding?

Have they bothered to read the university lecturer's posts saying they don't want unmotivated students?

I wanted DD to go to university and have a great time partying etc because she wanted to study and get a good degree.

@Hongkongsuey I will say that indeed I have no clue what a MFL degree involves. The problem is a lot of teens choose subjects to study (for GCSE, A-Level and university) because they are 'good' at it rather than what jobs that subject can actually lead too.
There's a possibility he has chosen to study Spanish simply because he got a good grade and a teacher once said "ooh you're good at this".
I always assumed people went to university to study something that leads to a specific goal and am shocked to discover that many people go for an 'experience'. That concept never was on my radar until reading Mumsnet.
If he is good at Spanish then working in Spain for a bit could be fun for him.

The posters that went 30'years ago etc are living in la la land.

Uni is soooooo expensive now It's a whole different ball game.

DS is at Uni studying a Humanities subject. He took a gap year as he didn’t know what to do, traveled and worked and generally matured a bit. He’s very happy at Uni and I think it is the right decision to go for him even though he will come out with debts and a degree in a non stem subject. He is gaining valuable life experience that he would simply get nowhere else and a degree in pretty much anything opens doors that are otherwise shut no matter how driven you are.

YABVU about STEM/non-STEM.

I was one of the posters who said for the OP to let him go and I have to admit that I was at uni in 1990.

But I absolutely take on your point. It seems like a money for a degree that may or may not have limited value. It's a tough one for kids and parents now.

Not everyone will agree with your perspective, I understand you're may seem logical but then sometimes my going to uni your son may then advance himself once he joins a course ? Plus yes some research suggests some subjects are weaker than others, but you still gain all the transferable skill set.

How would flipping burgers and being a food artist at MacDonald, make any difference ?

While going to uni isn't the be all and end all, and plenty of people are very successful without going, if your DS wants to go, I think you should support him.

I did a STEM degree but non STEM degrees still have value! A friend of mine studied History, did an MA in business and became a manager for M&S when he graduated. He has a good job (as do I with my STEM degree) and is happy.

Plenty of roles in areas like the civil service are accessible with a non-STEM degree and if he does a language or perhaps a joint honours - maybe Spanish and sociology, he will have plenty of transferable skills.

As for wanting the student experience- that is also important. I moved away when I went to uni and it was a brilliant move for me. Yes, I had plenty of fun, but I also enjoyed my degree, grew up, learnt how to budget, how to live alongside others and how to deal with things that didn't always go to plan.

Unless he has an EU passport working in Spain is not really an option for him. It’s almost impossible to get a visa for the kind of work he could do post-Brexit. Young British adults you might see working these jobs either were resident pre-Brexit, have a different passport despite their accent or are working illegally.

I really don’t understand going to uni just for the sake of it and wanting to experience ‘student life.’ I think it’s best to go uni when you know what you actually want to study as opposed to just going because everyone else is.

But hey, what do I know!

I can’t think many parents try to talk their children out of going to university. YABU.

I think he should make his own decision OP. Having a degree isn't always better than not but on average it is in terms of long term prospects.

His issue if he doesn't is it's hard to get the roles that give the experience that counteracts the lack of degree. I'm in a position that noone even considers my education achievements and I can't remember the last time I was asked as a result of having a packed CV in my field, but I know in my 20s I wouldn't have spent as much time grinding my way into this position if I'd had a degree under my belt and the opportunities that can bring. It taught me a lot, yes, but some of those years were a real slog.

If your son doesn't really have any passions or subjects he is particularly interested in, he'll only find the same with work anyway so he may as well get the uni experience and maybe, just maybe, he'll find his passion.

She isn't talking him out of going to university at all. She is talking about him not going YET