To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

I can't believe so many posters think your ds should head to uni with no idea what he wants to do.

Actually advising someone gets a job or an apprenticeship when they have no idea what they want to do is much worse advice.

People running apprenticeships and employers want people who show a clear commitment to that very specific sector or job.

For someone who is academic but unclear about their career plans then university is a good option. It gives you time to think about your career in a place that is designed to support you in doing exactly that!

I'm very pro apprenticeship and technical education but only for those who know that's what they want to do.

Oh, and I say that as a qualified careers adviser who specialises in post 18 options so I'm more than qualified to offer that advice.

@UnicornRidge

Many middle class parents don't realise qualifying in a trade can get them more money, higher job security and potentially higher job satisfaction.

A lot of it is also snobbery. In the Blair years, we got one of those "technical" secondary schools built near us, which was supposed to be aimed at the less academic pupils to learn trades and practical work. It closed after about 5 years because of low numbers of pupils. Parents simply didn't want the stigma of their little darling going to such a school and potentially doing a "dirty hands" job. They'd far rather they struggled, got MH issues due to not being able to do the school/uni work, and end up either crashing out of Uni, or working in a call centre or shop with their low grade degree.

My sister was that type of parent. It was clear from an early age that my nephew wasn't "academic", but my sister pushed him and pushed him and he managed to scrape a few "passes" at GCSE and then did A levels in which he crashed and burned, being thrown out of sixth form after the first year. She still didn't get the message, and pushed him into going to the local college of FE to do some kind of business studies diploma, in which he struggled and crashed & burned, being thrown out after the first year, again. Since then he's done a succession of minimum wage jobs, including van driving, shop work, etc. I said many times during his teens to her that she should suggest he went into the trades, but she was having none of it - apparently he was "too good" to be a tradesman! In the next breath, she whinges about how expensive plumbers are and that she can't get a decent one and also the cost of having a TV aerial installed a few weeks ago saying the same as people on here, that "why" do plumbers, aerial installers, etc charge so much!

She really doesn't see it! The thing is that nephew would have been a brilliant tradesman, he's always been into doing things with his hands, does a lot of work on his own and his friends' cars (sister also complains how mechanics are too expensive!), has done a lot of work to his home, etc.

We really need to tackle the snobbery about "hands on" and practical work.

Actually advising someone gets a job or an apprenticeship when they have no idea what they want to do is much worse advice.

Jobs pay you money. They give you work experience. Many apprenticeships do the same.

The worst that happens is you have a year of earnings and work experience. Uni will cost over £9000 + debt for living costs. A gap year is a great time to learn independence, work ethic and options for further study/career direction.

Uni is an expensive gamble for those who don't know what they want to study.

This kind of attitude really makes me laugh. Too good to be a tradesmen? Many trades will earn in multiples of many degree educated people and yet they still think they can look down their nose at them.
I will point out that you do need to be clever to make it as a successful tradesmen though. None of this “not academic” or “barely scraped through” they might make an ok employee or decent labourer but they won’t be in the top earners with their own business if they’re not academic.

He's hardly going to want to go to the local college to do a plumbing or electricians course with a load of school leavers once he's been to Uni and got a degree is he?

Is it even possible for a graduate to do an apprenticeship course in the trades aimed at school leavers, or does having been to Uni close doors to that kind of apprenticeship?

There’s a lot of competition for a good apprenticeship and the attractive ones tend to be the school leavers as you can train them exactly how you want them to work. We’ve never had an graduate applicants.

Jobs pay you money. They give you work experience. Many apprenticeships do the same.

There's a difference between getting a job and an apprenticeship.
Getting a job while you consider your options is one thing bit apprenticeships require commitment and you'll struggle to get one of you are unable to show a passion and desire to train to work in a specific job or sector. They're often incredibly competitive.

Has he been to some uni open days and looked at what course he can do with his chosen a levels? He may find his spark once he looks into it. There is still plenty of time for that to happen if he is year 12. If he wants to go to uni I would encourage him tbh. Wanting a gap year is something that has to come from him really, not you.

My son is good at stem subjects but wants to do a level 3 in an art subject instead of a levels. I am encouraging him to look at all the oprions and do what will make him happy. We started attending uni open days last year (year 10) and it helped him plan his route. He is looking at doing animation.

He's hardly going to want to go to the local college to do a plumbing or electricians course with a load of school leavers once he's been to Uni and got a degree is he?

Does he want to do an apprenticeship in plumbing anyway?? Apprenticeships are highly competitive and they want people who want to train to do that job.

And there are different levels of apprenticeships undertaken by people of all ages.

Why shouldn't he have the full experience?

I’d be thinking about a degree with Spanish and something else or something like PPE

I think there’s a lot of growing up done by going off to university though appreciate the associated costs are pretty off putting

Well said - my son joined the Army as a mechanic. He never wanted to do anything else! He matured massively during the basic training, and now has every driving licence going, as well as qualifications in engineering. All this time he's saved up about £20k in 4 years. No debts, a good CV, and good mates.

Of course, in the military, there are opportunities for all kinds of professions, not just mechanic - trades, medical qualifications etc.

These days, I don't think degrees are so special, when so many people achieve them.

@UnicornRidge @RampantIvy

I learnt the hard way. Was always very good at reading/writing (reading age of 16 at 10yo etc) and never questioned the fact I was going to uni.

I think my parents would've supported me in whatever I wanted within reason, but neither they nor my school/careers advisor ever really mentioned trade jobs so I was none the wiser.

I hated office work tbh. Hated being stuck inside on sunny days in the summer, and in winter I hated leaving home in the dark and returning in the dark having barely seen a breath of fresh air all day. I worked in a sales-y role where my writing and English degree were useful but it actually killed my passion for reading etc as I spent all day looking at words and drafting lengthy proposals.

I took a big jump into the construction sector in my late 20s and five years later I still love it. Never stuck in one place, get to see genuinely interesting stuff rather than endless meetings, corporate politics, and engagement bullshit. I can drive tippers/mixers and quite a few other trucks now (which I love) and I can comfortably deliver/pour concrete, mortar, aggregates, or just help managing projects.

Being a woman has never been an issue as I'm not the type to have a heart attack if a bloke calls me 'love'. I actually feel like I get more respect having started as a truck driver than the young trainee managers who come to site fresh out of uni never having got their hands dirty.

Next step is either to get trained as a site manager (employer is pushing for this) or to get my operators license and go self employed. Can make decent money just as an owner/driver but if I add another 2-3 trucks I'd be laughing.

I just wish I'd started in my late teens. I'd probs be pretty minted by now rather than just doing comfortably, but like many youths it just wasn't on my radar and I didn't know anybody in the sector. I really feel like this is a blind spot in our society. Usually the types who moan about 'not enough women in xyz sector' are the least knowledgeable themselves!

Did you go to uni, OP? If not, I wonder if this is colouring your views.

Lots of kids haven't decided what they want to study in Year 12. If he wants to go to uni, I don't really understand why you would discourage him.

Humanities uni lecturer here.
Please tell him that if he isn’t really bothered about what subject he will study I don’t want him in my class and neither will my colleagues in other institutions.
I would make it very clear to him that you’re not supporting him to get the ‘uni experience’. Both of mine are well aware that that is my attitude. He needs to demonstrate some maturity here, research courses and institutions, and understand that poor attendance and engagement which tend to stem from lack of interest in s subject, might well lead to termination of studies pretty quickly.

Hello OP,

You make a valid point but I'd be concerned about him going to uni later if he dropped out now.

My brother decided to work rather than go to uni, he's regretting that now and doing a degree (at almost 40).

In any case, I don't think your son needs to be passionate about a specific subject - what he should do is think about what kind of job he wants to do and which degrees would facilitate that/give him the most options, and then do that.

Incidentally there's loads of things you can do when you speak a foreign language - from working in the tourism industry, to a multinational entreprise, to government jobs linked to immigration, etc. I agree with you that all degrees are not equal - a master's in philosophy may not get you that far - but languages are definitely useful.

Actually it's more common than ever for professionals in their 30s to retrain. Plumbers and sparkies being common choices.

I've been told that the problem they often face is that you need to have a certain number of work hours signed off by a competent professional and obviously none of the local companies are usually keen to help train up a potential competitor. If you're doing an apprenticeship you usually have weekly placement days to help attain these hours. Obv it's harder to do this once you're paying rent and have other financial commitments.

Having gone to uni and not got a degree I can tell you that the majority of jobs want a degree. They often don’t care if it’s unrelated.

Hi OP - not sure why you're getting a hard time when you are quite correct.

He would be far better placed to get a degree type apprenticeship in a good company or industry. He'll be earning from day 1, learning his way around business and have better prospects than university degree students.

BUT you can't tell him what to do. He probably wants to go to uni for a nice jolly for 3 years like most other students.

I sugest he takes a year out in Spain to perfect his Spanish. By then he might have more idea what kind of future he wants (and how to make it happen).

I did a LOT of casual work in my teens and made sure the sons did the same. Great way to quickly learn a range of new transferable skills; and a keen appreciation of what careers you hope never to follow.

Google "volunteering in Europe".

Uni definitely taught me to drink and sleep. 😂

Only seven hours a week in class in my first year and I didn't bother reading a lot of the books - just googled the main themes etc. Still got a 2/1 and was a couple % away from a 1st.

I met some good friends but honestly I think three years on the job would've been far more useful. Even in an office job. But of course I might not agree if I'd studied Engineering etc.

What about a year off working in a Spanish speaking country? (It's that's possible post Brexit!)

Funny how most of the actual uni lecturers on here are recommending he spends some more time getting his head straight about what he wants to do before committing to 50Ks worth of cash on a 3 year course that he may not have any interest in and may crash at !

I think a lot of kids at that age don't know what they want to do, but they do have subjects they enjoy and want to work at. If you don't have that IMO you should wait until you do, because doing a degree at Uni can be very hard and if you are not at least interested in the subject and following it through at the start then the probability of failure is surely much higher.

You want to at least start the subject being enthused about it and wanting to do the best possible. Sure halfway you might be jaded and not want to revisit ever again after you've got your piece of paper. But if you are unenthusiastic from day zero the probability that you will crash out before the end has got to be that much higher.

"they are always crying out for flatmates in many uni towns/cities" - do look at the council tax position, though. As I understand it, if one member of the household is not a full-time student, then the whole household is liable for council tax. At least that's how it was when my DD was at university.