To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

I know someone who joined the merchant navy after A levels and worked on oil tankers. He then had a short spell in cargo inspection before moving into oil refining. He doesn’t have a degree. He’s earning roughly £300k a year.

Trades jobs like that are a young persons game.
If they don't end up in management, those trades take a toll on the body and a serious injury and that career is over.

Suggesting a gsp year is not a bad idea at all. Time to get some money and figure out what to study. I don't think it's a great idea to go study something random and just switch or go with your best subject if you have no interests. Something generic like business will often work out. But some schools offer courses where you don't have to pick a subject. I understand that I'm over 30 so I'm elderly but in my day it was totally normal to have a few gap years till you got into the course you wanted. But I do think if he wants to go he should but having a sit down and talk about gap year is good. I don't think he understands how expensive it is to go to uni if it doenst end up in a degree of something that he can semi enjoy.

If he doesn't know he wants to do there is a lot of value in getting a year's work experience while he works it out. He might decide to do an apprenticeship or he could do short courses on something like Futurelearn while he works.

I do think kids are on a bit of a conveyer belt and they don't always make the right choices. If a child has a practical bent there is a definite advantage to training to be a plumber as a pp said. But you need to be practical and have problem solving skills, otherwise there's no point. And you need to find someone to train you which is probably not that easy.

I'd probably encourage him to find a job that will provide more transferable skills than McD, even if it does teach you how to deal with the unwashed public. Maybe working in a library or a bookshop instead where you are also using computers, doing stock control, may be a keyholder etc. Or spend some time working and then do a language course overseas.

In practice he'd probably have to take two years out, as he'll spend a year deciding what to do, then apply, then have to wait until the following September to go.

Oh, and in what world is a language degree not useful? Not everyone can be good at STEM!

My friend’s daughter is currently on a gap year in Canada on the slopes.

Well, yeah, but that's like saying entry level graduate jobs are a young person's game. If you're ambitious you start a small business and let the young lads do the hard work. Large commercial electrical installations etc require a fair bit of project management and it's usually not young guys managing it.

Also, a lot of the bad knees etc come from people being blasé about ppe etc. I see loads of young guys kneeling on hard floors without kneepads which can be bought really cheap and slotted into their work trousers. Also see loads of guys using loud drills without proper hearing protection, guys using grinders without goggles to protect against sparks etc. Earlier today I saw a driver using hydrochloric acid to clean the concrete from his truck. Using a brush (easily flicks droplets) and no goggles/mask etc.

That said, most of the big contractors are big on safety nowadays. I can't even walk to the canteen at my workplace without hard hat, safety glasses, full long sleeve hi viz shirt/trousers, and ear defenders. I'd say I met a lot more unhealthy people working in offices. Especially on the younger side. Most young builders are in good shape by contrast. In some ways it's bad knees vs bad heart.

My child is doing a STEM degree and does not know what she wants to do! Not a clue. Is she guaranteed a job?! I am fascinated where she will end up as she does not want to go into a profession like engineering. This thread is great and makes me think the world is her oyster though!

I disagree with a lot of comments.

Everyone gets an allocation of loan/funded study time from the govt. I think it's four years.

So your ds could go now, choose a subject he's not bothered about, waste his funded years, run up £60k debt and come away with not much.

Or he can hold on until he knows what he wants to study, and then use his allowance to get a decent start in something he really wants to do.

I'm with you OP. Suggest he waits/works until he is more decided.

Actually advising someone gets a job or an apprenticeship when they have no idea what they want to do is much worse advice....Oh, and I say that as a qualified careers adviser who specialises in post 18 options so I'm more than qualified to offer that advice.

I am surprised that a careers advisor doesn't know that you only get 4 years worth of student loans. Starting university then dropping out or moving to another university just wastes a year of funding and creates a debt for the student.

Uni is an expensive gamble for those who don't know what they want to study.

I agree with you @Broadbeachshallow

Humanities uni lecturer here.
Please tell him that if he isn’t really bothered about what subject he will study I don’t want him in my class and neither will my colleagues in other institutions.
I would make it very clear to him that you’re not supporting him to get the ‘uni experience’. Both of mine are well aware that that is my attitude. He needs to demonstrate some maturity here, research courses and institutions, and understand that poor attendance and engagement which tend to stem from lack of interest in s subject, might well lead to termination of studies pretty quickly.

It's rather concerning that most posters are paying no attention to the university lecturers input on this thread, especially "careers advisors"

DD's work experience during her gap year helped her walk into a job straight after graduating, especially as there were no placements due to covid for her to gain any experience while she was a student.

My granddaughter rejected university in favour of doing a trade apprenticeship. She currently in her 2nd year as an apprentice electrician and loving it. Once qualified, she'll be able to earn good money and won't have any student dept. And, even better, she's earning money while she's learning.

Erm he sounds really bright! You talk about Bs like they aren’t good ? A levels are bloody hard so he’s way above average. He’s also normal wanting the life experiences uni brings, as long as he gets work experience snd other extra stuff that uni offers he sounds like he’s making a good choice he will figure out his career path in time.

I'm with the posters who suggest that your DC should have a year between school and studying. Our DS didn't know what he would have chosen to study at university but he enjoyed food and cooking, so we sent him on a four week crash chef course (thinking of chalet work or yacht crew, both of which are popular around us). He walked into a job at a top hotel as a junior chef de partie and worked like a demon for a year and a bit. He quite enjoyed it, but not the hours.

Eventually, he decided to do a TV degree. Unfortunately it coincided with COVID and his first year course was online, and mainly theory, so not ideal for a practical team-driven subject. Like Kazzyhoward's DC, the university experience socially wasn't wildly successful, so he's intermitting and will probably look to do the third year overseas. But he's worked the whole time, as a chef and currently in engineering.

I would say get straight to uni and get a part-time job. I never really see any value in taking a year out. That way he started his degree and is also making a bit of money on the side. The work experience will be valuable toO

@YearsOfStagnation if your DD is doing physics / maths / CS, she will walk into a job easily. The degree provide in demand transferrable quantitative skills in the job market. My very few female classmates, including the ones with a 3rd and 2.2 in their degree all got good job offers paying above average.

If DD is attending a top uni, doing other STEM, excluding biology, will be easy for her too.

There is a big advantage as a female graduate with a STEM degree. Almost guaranteed to be interviewed. HR will make the hiring manager interview the only female applicant.

Gosh that sounds amazing. She is doing Nat Sci (Physics) at Cambs so obviously a decent university. What kind of jobs specifically? I appreciate you sharing your expertise (sorry for the derail). Thank you.

Why?
Perhaps you should read the posts by university lecturers in this thread. They don't want unmotivated lazy students. Work experience during DD's gap year helped secure her a job after graduating.

I never see any value in going to university unless you actually want to get a good degree (as well as all the usual other experiences that you get at university).

@YearsOfStagnation
Physics grad is in high demand. Even if the whole cohort of home physics grad go into teaching, they just about fill the number of physics teacher vacancies in the country. There is a big shortage of students taking physics / CS / maths at university level.

I work in finance and tech. We need people with quantitative skills with undergraduate level maths.

There are many jobs she can do:

• Quantitative analyst, build mathematical model
• Data Scientist, there are multiple stream she can specialise in, e.g.

Natural Language Processing (think ChatGPT), cyber security, audio (Amazon Alexa, Google echo dot), visual (driverless car, YouTube, vacuum robot, facial recognition, handwriting recognition), unstructured data extraction (many industries need that), consumer behaviour prediction (Expedia, Netflix, Tesco, Amazon, shein, Boohoo), geospatial (climate, weather, town planning, maps), medical and climate research.

• Software Deveveloper
• Data engineer
• Associate in finance, data generalist with knowledge in finance and investment

Thanks so much @UnicornRidge I think I will save this post. Unfortunately she thinks she is ‘no good’ at computing but hopefully these jobs won’t all require coding skills.

I am old so most of these jobs didn’t exist when I was growing up and I don’t really know what some are! but I look forward to researching them.

Now I just need some advice for my humanities-studying child ;-)

I appreciate the advice.

He might find a gap year more appealing if he does something a bit more exciting with it. Working abroad for example or volunteering or just travelling.

However I think if he wants to go to university you should support him. Not knowing what he wants to do at this stage is hardly unusual, in fact often it is preferable to have a flexible approach rather than a fixed plan.

He's clearly bright if he's getting Bs without much effort so a degree is unlikely to be a waste of time.

If he enjoys Spanish then I would encourage him to look at joint honours and doing Spanish with another subject if he doesn't fancy a language degree.

Language degrees are highly thought of and sought after by employers so don't discount that. It would lead to lots of employment opportunities, not just translator or teacher.

Humanities aren't the dead end you seem to think either, and he doesn't have to do something he has an A-level in, he could do a subject he has an A-level in or something connected. So say he has history A-level he could consider, a history degree or something like Ancient History, Archeology, Spanish and History, Ancient and Medieval History, Egyptology and History, History and Politics, Modern History, History and American Studies, History and International Relations etc.

As an example very few law undergraduates have an A-level in law, so he could consider a law degree but a fair percentage of solicitors and barristers have degrees in other subjects with humanities, English and Languages all being well represented. Subjects like politics, business, international affairs, might be worth considering.

It is entirely legitimate for him to pick a useful subject that he is good at and decide what to do with it later, he will still benefit from the degree and improve his job prospects. I wish I had done that!!!!

Please don't try and stop your son going to Uni, there is a very good chance that it will lead to resentment and you will be blamed every time things don't work out as he wants, he will forever think you stopped him for fulfilling his dreams. At the end of the day it's what he wants that matters and not you. Support him, but put your own boundaries in place which may well be financial. I have read others saying "my child dropped out and earns a ton of money etc etc" which is great, because that is what their children chose. It isn't all about money, and your scepticism should stay as yours only. Don't clip his wings before he has even learned to fly.

I totally understand the concern if he has no real interest in any particular subject and just wants the uni experience with no real plan given the student debt and costs of accommodation etc. I hope my experience might make you feel a little better about it maybe!
I went to uni at 18 with no real interest in much other than the uni experience and dropped out at the end of the 2nd year to work full time as my heart wasn’t in it - I already worked part time through uni to pay for nights out and living costs and I enjoyed the job and having money! Thankfully though I did end up finding my passion while at uni which is now my career (related to the degree I didn’t finish but I went back later and gained a nursing degree!). The previous experience at uni in a random course has actually helped me climb the career ladder for sure.
I don’t regret going to uni - it was a brilliant experience, I learnt so much and gained friends for life and so many priceless memories.
I think it’s worth talking to him about what his interests are for a career post uni and try and go down a degree route that will help him towards that if possible. Even look at careers that Spanish would be useful for - interpreting, teaching, some companies require bilingual employees for some business roles etc. If he’s set on going then at least he’ll be able to get on graduate schemes for employment afterwards even with an unrelated degree.

In my group of friends those of us who did apprenticeships are earning nearly twice that of those with decent degrees. Personally I would recommend apprenticeship route, some employers offer degrees through them now anyway. Experience counts for a lot more than a meaningless degree in my experience and field (Engineering/Aerospace). Not to be dismissive but the subjects chosen don't scream high paying job to me, but it's what your son wants at the end of the day?

I get where you are coming from. Very few can afford uni for the experience these days. I wouldn't recommend uni unless he has a career path or a burning desire for a subject he is doing.

Speaking from experience, although it was the opposite for me, I didn't want to go to university straight away for so many reasons. I wanted the gap year, work 6 months, save up and travel for 6 months but I was forced to go to university without a gap year by my mother. Nearly 20 years later, I still resent her for not allowing me to make my own decision. Yes, I have a degree but it cost me well over 20grand in student loans, still paying it back and not doing anything related to it. My degree is in fine art, but majority of my jobs have been in some kind of care setting, and I still have no idea 'what I want be when I grow up!' Please allow your DS to make his own choice with this, and support him whatever he decides.