Dad taking a bath with young child

[Demjay]

Please help:
would you consider it normal for a dad to share a bath with his children : say 3-5 years? If you had other concerns , would this be a red flag , or is this just totally ordinary / acceptable dad behaviour?

Also, the vast majority of “sexual offences” are not against children. Most sexual offences are for (serious) things like exposure, unwanted sexual touching, and so on. Most sexually motivated crimes are committed against an adult woman by her male partner, or another male.
My mum has worked with many sex offenders (as service users - not colleagues. For clarity) and even amongst the rapists, paedophiles are universally condemned.

So even although yes, men are more likely to commit sex crimes; the vast majority of men - EVEN INCLUDING SEXUAL ABUSERS - are not paedophiles.

Also relevant is that even amongst paedophiles, being interested in pre school children is rare. I believe the majority of crimes against children occurs around the age of 15.

No one is looking at this from the child's point of view here.
We have already heard from some people that they didn’t want their parents' nudity, even though the parents felt it was fine. I think that some people are so keen to be liberal that they tend to lose sight of this.
Children tend to want some privacy at some point in their development, usually around 4. Prior to that, they are usually fairly OK with bodies being exposed, theirs and parents'. Then they aren't.

I have said that proximity and an enclosed space are the issues. Also consider the child's height.
Wandering around nude isn't the same as having a close up of cock and balls together in in a shower, or as someone clambers into the bath.
And no, it isn't the same for mothers, as their genitalia are more hidden and less in your face.
There is such a thing as non contact sexual abuse, where the child is exposed to unwanted pictures or sights.

This isn't necessarily anything to do with sexual abuse as such, or the propensity of men to abuse or not, unless there are red flags.
It isn't to do with changing nappies, or bathing children
It is to do with what is OK for the child.

In and of itself, totally fine. Thinking of my own 5 year old though, I would be more comfortable doing it wearing a swimsuit. I'm fine with nakedness, but I personally wouldn't want them climbing all over me naked - simply because I don't like it, nothing to do with inappropriateness.

But if they always bathe together and the children aren't given other options, then yes, it's inappropriate. Not from a sexual perspective, but from the perspective of being controlling and failing to set up appropriate boundaries. Kids need their own time too and a massive adult taking up the whole bath every bath time seems like an invasion of personal space.

@Giggorata so what about a dad taking his young children swimming and they all share a cubicle to change?

The statistics have been shown to be false? Or the fact that some people don't understand them has been shown to be untrue?

Well if you read my post I didn’t state anything about abuse.

I said that I don’t bath with my kids so I’d just find it odd. He’s also 6”4 so there’s barely any space for him to fit in the bath let alone him and one of the kids. Where are they meant to sit, on his lap?

I just find it strange all around because it’s not something that I’ve ever done. Nothing to do with potential abuse

Was this maybe learned in other environments though, like school?
I was brought up with quite prudish parents, but I am not a prudish parent myself. My daughter is obviously not uncomfortable by us being naked, given the amount of times she comes into the bathroom to chat to us if we are bathing or whatever, or the amount of times she comes into our bedroom unannounced when we are clearly getting ready.
However, in the last 6 months or so, she has become increasingly shy about her own nudity, and now chooses to put her pyjamas on in her room, for example. She hates anyone watching her get changed. Interestingly though, she calls us through to chat while she is in the bath. I believe this is because at school they are becoming more aware of “privacy” when getting changed so she’s following her peer group, whereas she’s totally okay with nudity. She hates us seeing her in her pants and will hide her chest/pants, but happily has us in to bath her when she’s fully naked. So I don’t think it’s as clear cut as upbringing or inane. There are definitely social factors too.

Normal, although I was forced to share up to age 13

With your dad? 😳

Well of course @Onthenosecco but we all have a certain aversion to nudity. If we didn't we'd all be walking round naked in the supermarket!

The aversion to nudity comes from society though. There are also reasons to not be naked in a supermarket that go beyond just not wanting people to see your naked body. For example, hygiene. Legalities. Climate.

I disagree. It’s bastard cold in the freezer aisle.

OK, let's analyse it. I would consider the following factors:
*child OK with it
*potential dangers for young children alone in adult changing area - high
*safer to be with parent in changing area
*proximity, possibly high, less so than in bath or shower, and in the context of changing clothes, not naked for long period, as in bath or shower.
*enclosed space, likely, but less so than in bath or shower, and in the context of changing clothes, not naked for long period, as in bath or shower
*Absence of any red flags

Conclusion: not problematic.

Read that wrong. Do I mean I agree? Not sure. Bastard cold bit still stands, though.

That’s what I meant by “climate” 😂

Mum or dad, more family changing rooms at the swimming pool with my dad, partly because he wanted to have a good look at me and all the potential women walking around naked, he's a colossal pervert. He wasn't happy when I stood my ground and started using the women's changing room.

If the aversion comes from society, then why? Is it because it is innate and society has responded to our natural feelings? It's quite an interesting discussion. You could probably write a PhD on it! I mean what do tribal communities throughout the world who aren't influenced by our modern society do? I think it differs depending on the group doesn't it...it's often hard to differentiate between nature and nurture. Anyway, I'm totally off on a tangent now.

I might be in short opinion here; but her issues your concerned with aren’t related to why you wouldn’t trust a father and child in the bath together?

You explained they have a history of being abusive, emotionally and what not. But being abusive to an adult partner does not make them an automatic peadophile? Abuse is wrong, no matter who it happens to. But you cant say “oh he abuses his wife so it’s wrong he baths with their kids” that just doesn’t make sense?

id be more concerned that there is a history of abuse, why are you not more worried for his wife rather than the kids.. since you know he’s an abuser and she’s likely in danger?

You’re also spouting about how men are more likely to commit sexual assault - this being true of course - but 59% of child SA’s are committed by acquaintances, 34% by a family member, and that 34% isn’t specific to fathers, it’s family members a overall. And 7% by strangers.

if you have any cause of concern for the safety of those children, why don’t you spend less time drip feeding onto this MN thread and report him, have him investigated and maybe try, even just a little bit to act like you care more about the kids than you do causing the drama online.

I’ll never understand how anyone can be genuinely concerned about the safety of a child and spend however long debating it online before acting on it.

They conform to their cultural norms, just like we do.

Im personally totally okay with everyone in my house seeing me completely naked. I still wear clothes the majority of the time, because I would need the heating set to 30 year round to be comfortable.

In the UK, the use of clothes was most likely practical - it’s too cold to be naked outside for most of the year. I’d imagine it would be pretty dangerous to do jobs like mining naked? And obviously there is the stigma not just around clothes/no clothes, there is stigma around WHAT clothes you wear.

to be honest, Id be less likely to be looking at the potential of sexual abuse, which is pretty low, and looking at the emotional or controlling abuse / crossing of boundaries. You say enmeshed and pushing to co-sleep. And Im usure from your post as to whether he is getting in the bath, rather than they are, of their own will, getting into HIS bath.

Ignoring a childs boundaries and making them an extension of HIS wants and need to dominate is much more common, but also has significant MH issues for the kids

It also sounds as if he could be doing it to provoke reaction or claim ownership.

IMO kids will show if they want you in the bath. They will ask. Its about the kids wants, not the parents. I have one child who was happy to walk about the house naked until pretty old, and another who wanted his bodily privacy from a young age. Even bathing, I made sure that if I washed their body, that they washed their own genitals. By caually refering to them in general as 'privates' it enforced that they were, in fact, private (we do use the correct terms for the individual parts if needed)

Absolutely not, personally. Highly inappropriate

The vote is pretty conclusive that, at least in the basis of the OP, and even with the additional info TBH, normal

Jesus fucking Christ. That is horrifying.

It's interesting hearing everybody's views and as with many things, they vary.
I grew up in the 70s and I don't think bathing with a parent was a thing then (maybe it was) but my family never did it, nor did I ever see either of my parents naked.
My children have never seen either parent naked, nor did we bath with them.
It's just a thing I wouldn't do, but if other people do, that's fine. Other cultures are very open with nudity but I'm not.

I don't find the idea of a dad being in the bath with his children at all strange.

That said, if he were to lock the bathroom door for reason that wasn't obvious, I would perhaps ask myself - and him - why.