To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

this.

Stop being so controlling. It’s his life, not yours

Why do people constantly keep repeating this on MN? It's not true.**

Because they worked for 'traditional employers' 30 years ago and either haven't changed jobs or haven't worked in a professional job since.

I'm always curious about what 'graduate employability' means? Does this mean a job in a field related to the job or a job in Costa? How do they know? My university hasn't contacted me once to see if I have a job in my field (I do). They could have find the information from HMRC, but I assume that would be against data protection. But I haven't once told my previous two universities if or where I work.
Is it based of a sample size?

If you are on Facebook join ‘ what I wish about university ‘

I meant

what I wish I knew about university

I’d say that if he is self funding it then you should have no say in where he is going. If you are paying for everything then personally I think you should be involved in the discussion.

Depends what area of work he wants to go into. If it involves research then yes I would say the RG uni would be ideal but if it's a vocational qualification it really doesn't matter
My daughter has been offered 3 RG unis but wants to do teaching so it doesn't matter where she goes

As pp have said, a lot depends on the course and what he wants to do after the degree (eg PhD) but the most important thing is that he does the programme he’s interested in and is happy. If it’s a very specialised course I can see why he might be strongly drawn to a particular university.
I have 2 dc at universities. During the whole application process we stressed that being where you want to be, doing what you want to do is more important than anything else. I have seen a lot of young people pushed by parents to do courses or go to “prestigious” universities that they don’t really want to go to, and being very stressed and unhappy as a result. The “polyversities” often have great courses and facilities.
We also stressed that not getting their first choice or even any of their offers is far from being the end of the world. Every year thousands of young people get on excellent courses through Clearing. Once you’re there you can just concentrate on working hard and enjoying yourself. There’s nothing to be disappointed about.
Please let him do this the way he wants. It’s a big step he’s taking and it would be very sad to think he was either reluctantly doing what his parents want, or feeling that you’re disappointed because he took a particular path.

*At the RG uni I felt there was a huge amount of navel gazing and a slightly smug air of self satisfaction, almost. They were trading off their reputation and the teaching quality just didn’t back it up.

So, don’t assume that RG means best because in my experience that absolutely wasn’t the case.*

agree, I went to RG and it was nothing special at all.

His decision.

What does he want to do as a career? If he wants a career that is unlikely to be influenced by being at an RG uni, then it really doesn't matter.

Cant believe in 2023 people are still using "Ex-poly" as a reference.

Sounds slightly to me like he wants an easier ride of doing his A-Level, knowing he can get there with a lower offer and the actual uni choice is a red herring.

Yeah he's making a big mistake not to go to the best one be possibly can

Choice of uni (rightfully or wrongly) has a HUGE impact on the course and trajectory of your future career!

This simply isn't true in most jobs!

Yes, your kids will obviously not be biased and say that the students at the other uni is rubbish and easy!!! There is no way that they could possibly know this unless they study there or attend the course and sit the exams. But ultimately there is bias towards other universities. Red bricks always instill this arrogance and bias towards polies and look down on them.
The lecturers do it too. My lecturer in my red brick would say things like 'of course the poly down the road won't be teaching to this depth' (He thought that the standard of my cohort had dropped anyway, until a girl got 95%, the highest ever mark and he was shocked).
After I attended a poly I realised that the standard is no different, sometimes it's even higher because the students were more self sufficient and fended for themselves, but there isn't that smugness that the red bricks have.

It depends on what career and what your next steps are. I will never regret my decision to go to an ex poly. It was a fantastic uni with great teaching staff. I went on to do an MSc at a RG uni (where the teaching was pretty bad to be honest), so that's always an option further down the line if uni or quals become important in his job search.

Not your decision, not your life.

But I work in the university sector. RGs are better funded, have better staff retention, higher quality student cohorts, better links with graduate employers.

Ex-polys do very well on student experience and often have the most 'fun' courses/modules which appeal to students. But this doesn't necessarily mean 'better' if you're thinking about things like understanding of the subject, criticality, reflection etc.

DP is also an academic and a company director. He doesn't hire people with degrees from non-RG universities.

Some ex-polys are great (e.g. Northumbria, Lincoln, Brookes) and some are not so great (e.g. London Met), at least on average.

Going to an RG will certainly have upsides, and many give out very few 2:2s.

I made this mistake and have always regretted it. I went for the uni I loved and thought the ranking was just snobbery. The truth is that an AAB student surrounded by students who just scraped C's isn't going to have the best time academically. He won't feel challenged, and may well be in an environment where learning and grades isn't really valued by his peers. Maybe this is what he wants, but it's a consideration. It's also a mistake to think that lower offer unis have easier exams. Outside of Oxbridge, I think exam toughness is comparable across unis and I still think that a better uni looks better on a CV.

But it is his choice. He's the one who will have to live there for 3 years and go to the courses and so on, so if he is sure all you can do it support.

It is so subjective isn't it. Some ex polytechnics are now very highly regarded and require similar grades to the traditional RG universities. The actual course is very important too. I have one DC at a non RG university but it's the top ranking university in the UK for their particular specialism and competition for places is very fierce. Another DC went the more traditional route and is studying a STEM subject at a RG university. Though they did turn down a place at the more prestigious London School of Economics because the whole set up felt so souless and hothouse to them. Ultimately they need to feel settled and positive about there they study otherwise they're never going to perform to the best of their ability.

To you it's offering advice, to him it may feel like you're putting pressure on him. Please just let him get on with it. He's going to be living in this place for at least 3 years, it needs to be his decision

It's true. We are having more and more big employers request that we take Universities, and even names off of CVs. Diversity and inclusion is where it's at now. Attitude, ability to pick things up and team fit are key, but it obviously depends on what his Degree is in and what he wants to do.

Surely it's his choice not yours? He's the one who is going to be there every day.

My partner was made to go to a RG university and do a particular course by his father (who wouldn't pay otherwise), and even though he did brilliantly, he still resents his father for making him do this (30 years later!)

And he quit the profession he trained for as he hated it, despite being really good at it.

It's a difficult question. Some Universities are better at some subjects. Some will suit particular people better even if they aren't considered "top flight". Some employers care more about the reputation of their new recruits' University than others. It really depends on the subject and the ultimate goal.
My DS is currently doing a STEM subject at an ex poly and he is thriving. Both the course and the environment really suit his interests, aptitude and personality. Had he managed to scrape into one of the most sought after courses I think he would have been miserable. He would have probably been hanging on by his fingernails anyway, and not have got the kind of opportunities he is currently getting, such as he is the only 1st year on their team for an inter University competition related to the subject. They won't win or anything, but its a useful and enjoyable experience, and one he surely wouldn't have got at say Imperial or Loughborough. Plus he is a very practically orientated person, not interested in research, he wants a "hands on" job in his desired industry. His course will prepare him for that and has strong industry links. He may not be at the "best" University and I get a few pitying looks from people whose offspring are at more prestigious places but I believe he is in the right place for him and that's good enough for me.

As well as more and more employers doing blind recruitment (removing names and universities from CVs) some are even removing the requirement to have a degree completely. Penguin Random House has done this, I’m also a former BBC employee and we often recruited people without degrees through apprenticeships instead.

I don’t have a degree (dropped out after a year at an ex poly, lol) but I work in a field that on paper requires a degree. Nobody cares. I don’t have any education listed on my CV at all - I got relevant experience and training through internships and on the job. I have a better career than many people who completed the degree, and have had colleagues doing exactly the same job as me who’ve had a masters.

Appreciate if he wants to do law, medicine, anything else that requires specific training only accesible through a degree that is different, but more and more workplaces are going down the blind recruitment route and looking at alternatives to graduates for their recruitment pool.

I don't know the answer for your son but I'm sure he will end up doing what's best for him.

For me personally the whole "getting into uni" thing was a depressing experience. Pick your options at 14, get good GCSE's, get good A levels, get into a RG so you can get a good high paying job. Whole life planned out before you've even hit adulthood. I ended up picking a very academic degree at a RG because that's what everybody told me I needed to do.

If I had my time again I would probably make different choices.

OP my sister got into Oxford and some other Russell group unis. She was predicted (and got) 3 As so could have gone to Oxford if she wanted. But she had fallen in love with Exeter and was adamant about going there. My parents were despairing about the thought of turning down Oxford but she wouldn’t budge.

obviously we have no way of knowing how things might have turned out if she’d gone to Oxford. But things have turned out amazingly well for her from Exeter, both in her career and her personal life (met her future husband in second year and they are now very happily married with 2 gorgeous young children). Both she and her husband are relatively successful in their jobs and, more importantly, have jobs they really enjoy. It’s not always about the prestige/reputation!