To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

I don't think the perception that students get an 'easier ride' at less prestigious universities, or that it is somehow easier to get a good degree is correct, so if that's what he is basing his decision on he might be disappointed....

However, his life his choice.

The best university for your son is not necessarily the most prestigious university.

I’m curious why he wants to go to the poly. If he really feels he will maximise his potential there that’s one thing. If he thinks it’s an easy ride it’s another. And how will he feel as a potentially AAA student being with people who in some cases would be less than BBC.

i know of and have read of cases where people chose universities and courses because of unconditional offers then eased off at A levels, ended up with a not so good result in an degree they may not have done if not for the unconditional offer and had several years of extra study and debt.
I know this is not the same in this situation but I think there are some parallels.

I appreciate you are guiding (not saying my way or the highway). That’s what parents are supposed to do.

I went to a top tier uni (requirement AAA, but would now include A* now that these are a thing). I flunked it and got a 2:2, as did a good chunk of my year in my subject (about a third of us).

My sibling did the same subject at an ex-Poly and got a 1st (and had BBC as A Levels).

Honestly the calibre of his course was terrible compared to mine (I could have passed his final year after my first year easily) but he still managed to get the unrelated graduate jobs whereas I was the one struggling to get one because of the 2:1 requirement.

In the end I’ve jumped him again career wise, but I still begrudge that he had a more fun time at uni and got a better grade meaning his start in professional life was easier.

So I’d say go for the ex-Poly unless you actually think you’re academic research material where the better course actually matters.

What are they ranking for seeing as that suggests that it doesn't give much weight for 'graduate employability and student satisfaction'?

Both those sound like rather important factors, which suggests that the ranking process isn't particularly objective/reliable.

Uni should be about securing a good job afterwards

It's one factor, not at all the only factor.

He's probably right, he will stand out academically from other students at the ex poly and be more likely to get a First.

YANBU
I think we as parents are there as more experienced people for our kids, to give advice. They don’t have to take it!

But yes if my child was saying they were picking a course as an easier, more relaxed option - I’d be urging them to rethink it. As sometimes the more ‘challeninging’ courses are way more interesting, with better teachers.

So maybe the way to do it, is to look more deeply at each college with him, lay out the pros and cons,
What is the teaching like?
What are the students saying?
What is the area and life like?
What jobs and opportunities could it lead to?

The only thing I would say is you do seem to have your own bias, even mentioning the ‘Russel Group’ means that you might be looking merely at ‘prestige’ when plenty of courses are much better in places not in the Russel Group - which is a very broad brush blunt way of looking at colleges. So give him ‘real’ advice, not one that might tend towards ‘snobbery’.

'But to me the idea that someone wants to go to a less reputable or easier place because they will get an easier ride seems to me to be a bit of an attitude problem and is some display of immaturity. You're not going to uni to get an easy ride.'

Absolutely this. He is not going to university for an easy ride. He is going to get a degree. People seem to forget this and go just to experience being a student and wonder why they are stressed trying to learn a subject that they have no desire to do.

I would STRONGLY advise you based on my own previous experience to stand back and allow him to make his own decision

All 3 of my kids have been to RG. Several of the poly's had very limited amount of teaching time and relatively few and easy exams according to my kids, compared to RG unis. So i find it hard to believe that employers would be as happy with degrees from those ex polys since they would have learnt a lot less - maybe it depends on the type of degree - mine used the degree learning as part of their current jobs.

has he checked how much learning time there is and what the employability stats are? And how much the average salaries are post uni? Is he likely to want to do a masters and has he checked about numbers going on to do this?

I agree with others that this has to be his decision.

It's his life, let him choose and trust in him & show him that you value his opionion.

I have experience of Oxbridge and Russell Group. I wouldn't recommend Oxbridge for undergrad as a University experience due to the short, intense terms.

Russell Group was great, decent pace of work (very dependent on course, thinking about friends how many hrs you need to put in) and we were in a great city that I wanted to live in, with likeminded people who chose to be there too. I would imagine the same of the ex-poly, if it's a course he likes, in a setting he likes, he will meet people he likes. It will all be well and life is about being happy.

I think your son has his head screwed on right. Also, this is now his life and he’s making his own adult decisions. You can advise, but ultimately it’s his choice.

I sit on recruitment and interview panels. Both in my department and occasionally at national scheme level in my profession. We absolutely don’t care where you got your degree. Your overall grade and your ability to write an excellent application will get you an interview. Then how you answer the questions gets you the job.

I’m not naive enough to think all professions are like this; some I’m sure are still an “old boys” network. But modern employment law is moving more towards removing things that can be used to discriminate against you on applications such as place of study, sex, names. All I get when I’m paper sifting is degree results and any previous employer details.

For what it’s worth, I also went to a RG university and nobody in my field gives a shiny shit 😂

I went to ex poly the teaching was far superior to red brick in same city. My bf did similar degree at same time - he admitted poly was much more engaged as staff were there to teach

That is a massive bias. Maybe he won't stand out. He might be with the students who can't afford to move to a red brick because they have a family or caring responsibilities and have to live at home. Or they went to an extremely bad school and still scraped a BBB and the student that managed ABB attended an exclusive boarding school from the age of 7. The sort of attitude where you think that you will stand out academically and slight snobbish entitlement whilst attending a poly will ensure you get a poor grade.

Some ex polys are regarded more highly than others except for specific subjects

When we looked round a sixth form college they referred to Top 15 Unis rather than Russel Group.
If I had a dc who wanted to do a vocational subject such as Optometry at an ex poly I'd be delighted that they knew what they wanted to do and would be employable. Ex polys seem to have a lot of vocational subjects.
Dd1 wanted to do a Science Subject rather than vocational though and picked a RG/Top 10 Uni

I think his view is wrong, though I doubt I could persuade him otherwise. Though having had a conversation about university with a couple of people the other day, I'd be looking for a job with prospects not three years of debt and potential stress.

I think you will have to accept his decision, you have expressed your view.

So I interview too (and actually read the CVs).

First thing I would ask is, you did really well in your A levels why did you pick University X to go to ?

And if they said something like it's nearer home and would be cheaper, or I was interested in this particular course or had better rep for helping people with disabilities or some other valid reasons I would be fine.

And if they said I picked it because I wanted to slacken off, party on and still get a great result then I would not be fine - I would not see that as evidence of someone who wanted to work hard or fulfill their potential.

I'd say ultimately it is his choice.

A lot hangs on what subject it is - some ex-polys have excellent reputations in some subjects and so a good degree from a place known to be a specialist could be better than a less good one from a better uni. I'm not sure an ex-poly is a guarantee of a higher mark, though.

Some jobs are still hung up on RG/Oxbridge degrees (which shouldn't be allowed IMO, and I say that as a RG graduate) but, as PPs have said, a lot of places are going more 'uni blind' in applications to improve the diversity of their talent pool, so I suspect it will matter less and less.

Ive worked and studied in both and have consistently found RG unis to be overrated. I completed my undergrad at a RG uni then went onto study two post grad qualifications at the poly tec in the small town 20 miles away. The teaching and facilities were better at the poly tec.

How do they know this about the polys?

What's he wanting to do as a job?

Different answers for city vs charity admin!

They will know A level grades though presumably.

I graduated with a 2:1 from Cambridge - and although I loved it, finals term nearly killed me. Not entirely sure it was worth it, as job applications have always asked that you don’t indicate where you obtained your degree. So in conclusion, he should go where he thinks he’ll be happiest. Employers are increasingly just asking for a degree of a certain class, regardless of institution.