To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

Good points @PhotoDad

lots of employers now haven’t got access to where you did your degree only what you did and what grade.

What tosh! It's not a protected characteristic 🤣

Interviewer: your cv doesn't state where you studied. Which university did you go to?

Candiate: not telling you

JS Mill, in the late 1800s, wrote that when they are young, people seek money/power/fame to become happy. But then they find that the process of acquiring money/power/fame actually makes them happy in itself, and they forget it was originally only a means to an end.

I have a lot of time for JS Mill.

Cv blind recruitment is becoming more common particularly for large corporate graduate schemes where your school and university are not available to those conducting the recruitment process . Where you went to school and Uni doesn’t make you a good employee.

There does seem to be a peculiarly binary view in some parts of Mumsnet. Life is either an RG+ University education and then a huge salary working for an "elite employer" in London...or abject poverty.
Fortunately, in the real world there are many other options both in terms of work and location and I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the fact that none of my children has chosen the approved Mumsnet path to "success".
FWIW I went to one of the very establishments mentioned repeatedly on here as somewhere to aim for, so I am not anti RG+ at all. I just believe that there are also other routes to success and happiness!

There does seem to be a peculiarly binary view in some parts of Mumsnet. Life is either an RG+ University education and then a huge salary working for an "elite employer" in London...or abject poverty.

I agree. DD falls in the middle. Apologies to all the lawyers on here, but there does seem to be an over representation of overpaid lawyers who can't see that there is another path to success. And by success I don't mean a 6 figure salary. I mean an enjoyable career with a good salary with a good work life balance.

That's been EXACTLY my experience....!

I have just asked DH, who used to recruit engineers, whether he selected interviewees based on where they went to university, and he said categorically not. Sometimes where they went to university came up in the discussion if the interviewee said "when I was a student", and DH would ask where they went.

He just used to employ the best person for the job.

@PhotoDad
Looking at DDs friends it’s a mix of both. Having said that people staying in places like Sheffield are also saying they cannot afford rent and certainly won’t buy for years unless parents help out. However arts grads!? No big money anywhere.

@RampantIvy Clearly not many are very high earners in London and elsewhere but people who have standard jobs do struggle for money. Therefore if Dc can get well paid jobs in cheaper areas, they might be happier. No one who cannot make ends meet is happy. A friend’s DS earns around £28,000 in London. Rent in a suburb is £900 a month. With bills it’s expensive.Then there’s travel costs, food etc. It’s a job with few prospects but he could not get a better job even with a relevant masters.

Science grads are usually fine. Lots of other grads are not on grad schemes and earn relatively little. This DS would be far better off being a teacher anywhere and definitely in London . Thats why DC need to think carefully about subjects and be realistic about jobs. Many do think London leads to higher earnings, but only for a few. So everyone surely has to think about jobs and pay eventually. Being in a well paid grad job in a cheap housing area certainly appeals to some!

No. It doesn't work like that! Lots of major employers, mine included, don't use CVs. Candidates complete application forms and HR remove various details before we see them. In fact ours is completely electronic now and the shortlisting panel just can't access parts of the form. I haven't seen an actual CV for years.
And obviously if an employer has a blind recruitment policy the interviewer wouldn't be asking where the candidate went to University would they? It's the employer who doesn't want to know, not necessarily the candidate who doesn't want to say. Going by some of the comments on here, some people would be very keen to share that info in fact as they think it entitles them to a head start.

@TizerorFizz Thank you for being patient and explaining your opinions and advice. I can get a bit spiky when it seems that my own life-choices are being criticised (even inadvertently) as well as on behalf of my arts/design DD. (DS15 is aiming for Chem.Eng. which is a different kettle of fish!)

Mainly this is due to some posters who seem to think that everyone should only care about high salaries, and I read some of your previous posts like that. Sorry!

Surely it also depends on your interests within the subject?

I have a geography degree (by the way, geography graduates are amongst the most employable of any graduate - so to all of you writing off humanities degrees, I suggest you do some research!)

I got into two RG unis (Glasgow and Edinburgh) as well as a non RG uni (Stirling) - I got rejected from a non RG uni (Strathclyde) despite it having the lowest entry requirements because my higher (A level) results were in the wrong subjects - I had good pass grades in Geography, English, maths, chemistry, biology and psychology - Glasgow and Edinburgh both did geography as a science whereas Strathclyde did it as an art.

I chose the least prestigious of all the unis I got into because the course they had best suited what I wanted to do as a career specifically. And I’m now doing that career. (they do a combined teaching and degree course)

And Strathclyde withdrew the geography course on what would have been my second year of uni, so thankfully I didn’t get in as that was actually my second choice!

Although cv blind recruitment is more common in larger companies they can only go to so many job fairs at universities and they do still generally pick higher ranked universities (which could be ex-poly but you’ve said isn’t the case for this subject). The more intimate events with companies are rife at Oxbridge for example and you learn lots of information at those events that as a graduate it’s often hard to come by but is very useful for applications and interviews.

I attended a RG uni and my husband an ex-poly and ultimately we do the same job with very similar salaries. His uni set him up better for general employment whereas mine focused more on the bigger higher paying companies, so in terms of a job afterwards it really depends on what your son wants to do. Ultimately uni can be quite stressful so if your son thinks he would do better at the ex-poly that sounds like the better choice for him

Depends on the student. It was a vague possibility for DS but when he realised the intensity of the workload he gave it a swerve. I have to agree that all that pressure (two essays a week rather than two per term) for no return (blind CV) would make you think again.
I suppose OP's son is doing something similar. The question is where does 'looking at work/life balance' turn into 'being lazy not achieving potential'.

For no return?

They just look you up on LinkedIn. That often gives them far more information than your CV.

surely "the best" university is the one most suited to your sons needs, rather than your vanity?

If he is dead set on going to the lowest ranked one. He should get extra curricular experience that will be attractive to a prospective employer. It doesn't have to be the end of the world. Depending on what he wants to do, and all other things being equal. a bright candidate who can demonstrate being a self starter and a doer, will often get the job over someone one with a similar academic profile from an Elite University.

@PhotoDad It totally depends on the student and what their views are on employment and whether they can afford to be on an average income. It also depends very much on what spare money (or rooms) parents have. Do you expect DD to buy a property? If so, where? My DD who went to LCF wouldn’t earn enough to do more than keep the wolf from the door. Other DD was very ambitious and likes money. She’s very happy with that choice. On MN, high earnings always equals misery. For DD, high earnings means fun and holidays and a property. Plus a great job.

Therefore I’m not saying everyone can, or should, aim for high earnings but parents and Dc do need to think beyond university. My high earning Dc loves what she does. She didn’t want to do anything else. We have the funds to support arty DC, who recently retrained, but thousands of grads don’t get near a grad scheme at all and will be living at home for a very long time.

Can you tell us which ex-poly?
If you don't get a 2:1 or above it really limits access to graduate programs.

I'd encourage him to really look at the details of the course. Student numbers, types of assessment, how busy the library is, contact hours, how lectures etc are delivered etc etc. look at current info and not historical info.

A lot of Unis are hard up and courses are changing.

Going to an ex-poly doest t exclude doing a masters elsewhere if he wants.

Going to an ex-poly doest t exclude doing a masters elsewhere if he wants.

I know someone who did her undergrad at Sunderland, masters at Newcastle and PhD at Durham and is now approaching a fellowship at Durham.

Going to an "ex poly" doesn't mean that you have no future.

Exactly! I know someone who did similar. Ex-poly where she got a first, then a fully funded Phd at Edinburgh in a competitive subject. She had poor A level grades but they didn't reflect her abilities.

Obviously it depends on what subject, what career plans, and which specific unis.

I would just add, if he's picking the lower ranked uni so he can 'enjoy himself' (party a lot?) and not be 'pressurised' (not work hard), while expecting to still get top grades, he may be in for a shock. And a poor degree from the lower ranked uni is not going to open many doors, however good a time he has over the next three/four years.

But ultimately, it's his life, and he's the one on the hook for the student loan repayments.

@Ellmau Loan repayments on a lowish salary won’t be huge though. They might just go on for years.

It makes a huge difference what the course is too. Post 92 for some academic subjects, eg English, are not so great. Post 92 for some engineering subjects are wonderful.

My son went to Warwick. Apparently it was 'my' idea. He did well and enjoyed it but as his life is not 'perfect' now apparently it's my fault as he would have been better (according to him) at Cardiff or Swansea. So advise at your peril! His life. Let him go where he feels better.