To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

The best univeristy is the one that he wants to attend and which he feels will best suit him and his needs / life. Going to a "good university" that he hates / drops out of won't do him any favours; and going to a good university won't guarantee him anything in life. Application, interest, motivation and a dose of luck are what get you ahead - at university and in life.

So much depends on the course.

DD1 chose her former poly uni on the quality of the labs (bio chemist). Graduated with a first. Now in a research job she loves.

DD2 went to an RG uni to do a combined science course. Total shambles from beginning to end. Every semester started with her running round departments sorting out her timetable as labs and lectures would inevitably clash between the different departments.

I think he's being pretty sensible. He's chosen what's best for HIM, rather than what's "best".

Not necessarily.

Completely depends on the sector

Just proves your husband is a snob and an idiot.

I do see where you're coming from OP - also it sounds like your DS has confidence issues. If he got an offer from the better rated unis then he deserves to go there and can absolutely get at 2:1 or 1st if he works hard enough. He shouldn't assume the ex-poly will be a doss either. I would check out teaching hours and student:tutor ratios, as well as rankings by his chosen subject to see which gives him best value for money and the best chance of getting the most out of his uni years, which is quite the investment these days!

It could be that the ex-poly offers the most teaching hours and is highly ranked and regarded for his subject. Don't forget to look at extra-curricula opportunities and if they offer a placement year.

I went to Bath uni (many years ago) and got 20 hours teaching a week plus took an extra 5 free hours of extra classes in other subjects. Also they had amazing sports facilities and a great careers department, which really set me up for the future. For the same fees my sister went to Nottingham which was more highly ranked at the time and she got only 5 hours teaching a week and was left to her own devices. My parents felt strongly my degree was much better value for money. But hey we both got good jobs in the end, and that was a lot down to endeavour, applying for internships etc as well.

I suspect it's more that it turns the overwhelming MN take on education - get your kid into the best independent you can, make them revise fiercely for GCSEs and A levels to get the very best grades and then go to an RG uni - on its head.

All that money, all those hours and hours of revision, no longer confer the life long advantages to their children that they've paid for.

And potentially missing out on some great talent !

I wanted to go to a good university to do a well thought of course in a subject that Ienjoyed. My school and my parents put enormous pressure on me to go to Oxford and study something that I was good at but didn't really have a passion for (the course that I wanted to do was not available at Oxbridge) as not to do so would be "missing a huge opportunity" etc etc. I went to Oxford and left after less than a year.

I don't have a degree.

If your son has sufficient information about all the courses let him choose.

If he goes to the wrong university - FOR HIM - then there is a much high chance he will drop out.

His life, his choice.

He is the one who has to live with the decision. He will always hold it against you if you force him and it doesn't go well.

It really depends on the subject. I'm an optometrist and you can only study optometry at a few universities. Some are RG, some former polys. In our industry, no-one will care where the degree came from

I work for a global top 10 law firm in London. Our grad rec actively seek out non-RG applicants and we have separate open day opportunities for non-RG students.

There again, he - an AAB student - is going to have to spend three years with people who have scraped to get into a BBC sort of place.

The fact that he did better at A level doesn't in and of itself mean he is going to do better in his degree, of course – university education and learning is quite different in style from A levels and some students will prefer it and thrive, while others may not.

People over-estimate the importance of A level grades for graduates – once you have a degree a lot of potential employers won't be all that interested. FWIW the majority of Masters courses do not ask for A level grades on the application form, which tells you something about how relevant universities themselves think A levels are for graduates…

I work for a global top 10 law firm in London. Our grad rec actively seek out non-RG applicants and we have separate open day opportunities for non-RG students.

Same. I work for a high profile UK "top" company and when we're recruiting we definitely prioritise looking at applications from non RG universities.

Non-RG universities don't have the quality of staff, infastructure or finances to provide students with a good enough level of education in the field DP works in.

DP's company is small and specialist and its not worth the risk for him.

It's a disservice to those students because the non-RGs still offer the course and happily take the students' money but are churning out graduates that don't have a chance of landing good jobs in the field.

It depends what he wants to do afterwards

If he had his heart set on one of the top tier graduate schemes/magic circle law firms/big 4 accounting etc it might be worth going for the better uni

If he's looking at, for example a job in his local council or the aldi/lidl grad scheme I doubt they will either know the the merits of the different unis or will give a fuck and he might very well be right that a 1st from UWE might look better to them than a 2.2 from Bristol or UWS/Cardiff etc.

BTW even if universities are removed from cvs/application forms there are definitely ways around it...e.g. oxbridge students can refer to "small tutorials" "played rugby for my college" "awarded a blue" etc and an experienced recruiter will know what they mean!

He’s got to go where he wants to go. But RG unis don’t have a big workload, not compared to Oxbridge. If anything, he might be a bit bored. Their 3 year courses could easily be compressed into 2 years.

Oh I completely understand this so much. At the end, I thought it was very important that my son made the final decision and that he was confident with his decision. I would have never forgiven myself if I had pushed something on him and it not worked out. I would rather have a happy child excelling because it's where he wants to be than have a child miserable but where I want them to be.

If that’s true then you wouldn’t mind telling us the field…

f he had his heart set on one of the top tier graduate schemes/magic circle law firms/big 4 accounting etc it might be worth going for the better uni

As above, those firms are actively trying to recruit non-RG applicants.

I know! They changed from ex-Poly's over 25 years ago...

My Dd goes to one of top unis, and the top one for the subject and hates it. She chose it but difficult to choose as no open days or anything because of covid. They offer little support and seem to rely on the name as enough kudos so don't really do much. Marking turn around is terrible. Staff sickness is rife as they have little support themselves. Impossible to get modules of choice. Thankfully next year is work placement and she hoping to do final year elsewhere. Let him choose which is best fit for him

Sure - it's a very specific field within synthetic biology which requires particular types of laboratories which are expensive to set-up and maintain. Non-RG universities don't have these types of laboratories because they don't attract the level of research funding needed to establish them and keep them running.