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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I'm in court tomorrow. Feel like I'm living a nightmare.

188 replies

FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 21:10

This is very outing but I really need advice. I've been in family court for over 4 years now. I left my ex when my child was 4 months old. Now 4 years. Lovely little boy, thriving, happy, etc etc. His dad abused both of us, and was found in a finding of fact to have perpetrated coercive control, harassment, Intimidation, rough handling of our son (stupid way of minimising the word 'assault'), racial abuse against both of us (me and my son are both mixed race).

Initially I suggested that he go on a domestic abuse perpetrator programme, but the cafcass section 7 said he wasn't suitable as he was in denial of the facts found against him. It was only after this point, after two years of court hearings and denials that he suddenly changed his tune and 'saw a sea of change' and was referred onto the course. I disagreed with this as it was clearly not genuine and he was just out of options. I'd like to mention that I had to get 3 non molestation orders against him, one after it was recommended he attend the DAPP.

Now cafcass have changed their section 7 as he has passed the DAPP with flying colours. I requested the DAPP report and it is littered with lies and fabrications. I've pointed this out and am able to prove some. He also stayed in his statement and in the DAPP risk assessment that I have depression and suicidal tendencies, which I have already provided a letter to say this isn't the case.

Despite all of this, cafcass are recommending contact go ahead. I have contested this in my statement (which I must say is well written and balanced) and am awaiting a hearing tomorrow to see if contact should go ahead.

I can't cope with this. I feel like my abuser is about to be back in our lives and I'm living a nightmare. He is still a very angry person and his daughter from a previous relationship doesn't want to see him anymore because he is 'so angry all the time'. I am not allowed to evidence this in court as it has come from his family members who are not willing to testify. They are honest people and estranged from him.

How do I move forwards? He hasn't seen our son in 4 years. I'm so scared.

OP posts:
bellabasset · 22/03/2023 22:53

Of course your son should have some contact with his father. But he's only 4 and I hope with the history of abuse it will be supervised contact. Good luck for tomorrow.

Cm078 · 22/03/2023 22:53

My sister has been going through similar for the past 2 years. With cafcass aswell etc.
Unfortunately the dad has been given every other weekend (including overnight)
He is an abuser, I have witnessed on many occasions, even some of it is on police record.
I am so sorry you're going through this, it is very scary. I hope it goes your way for you and your son

Original poster
FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 22:54

bellabasset · 22/03/2023 22:53

Of course your son should have some contact with his father. But he's only 4 and I hope with the history of abuse it will be supervised contact. Good luck for tomorrow.

Supervised contact is a means to an end and we can only get 6 sessions. This does not seem reasonable considering the history

OP posts:
Original poster
FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 22:55

I'm wondering how they will mitigate the fact that he lives 3.5 hours away also.

OP posts:
BubziOwl · 22/03/2023 22:55

I will be thinking of you tomorrow! Flowers I hope it goes as well as it possibly can. You sound like a great mum.

cato40 · 22/03/2023 22:56

SweetSakura · 22/03/2023 22:17

Strange how we encourage women to leave their abusers, often judge them if they don't, but don't believe children have the same right to live free from abuse.

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SweetSakura nailed 100% there. Adults in abusive relationships are advised to stay away from their abusers, but children HAVE to have contact. Where's the logic there?

Hotvimto3 · 22/03/2023 22:56

FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 22:54

Supervised contact is a means to an end and we can only get 6 sessions. This does not seem reasonable considering the history

Show quote history

Lets hope you even get supervised. Probably you won't my love im so sorry

Hotvimto3 · 22/03/2023 22:59

cato40 · 22/03/2023 22:56

SweetSakura nailed 100% there. Adults in abusive relationships are advised to stay away from their abusers, but children HAVE to have contact. Where's the logic there?

Show quote history

Because the mens needs override the risk to child. Many documented cases where father got contact at family court against soc serv and mums concerns cos 'alienation from a parent is worse than sexual or physical abuse' then they have gone on to commit heinous crimes. But as long as dad is ok hey.

Original poster
FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 22:59

Hotvimto3 · 22/03/2023 22:56

Lets hope you even get supervised. Probably you won't my love im so sorry

Show quote history

Cafcass are recommending supervised in the first instance

OP posts:
Hotvimto3 · 22/03/2023 22:59

FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 22:59

Cafcass are recommending supervised in the first instance

Show quote history

So did mine. They went against it

oblada · 22/03/2023 23:00

FamilyCourtNightmare · 22/03/2023 21:21

I believe they go with cafcass recommendations 99%+ of the time

Show quote history

Family courts do tend to go with CAFCASS but definitely not always and not 99percent of the time. Make your case, raise your concerns. Good luck.

OakTreex · 22/03/2023 23:00

Everything crossed for you OP.

My advice is to show an element of willing - e.g. "While I recognise that X has made some progress, I cannot be satisfied that direct contact is suitable for X due to X, Y and Z inconsistencies which demonstrate an unwillingness to change," or similar. You don't want to be seen as shutting down the idea of contact or appear hostile - it's a death knell for mother's in FC.

OakTreex · 22/03/2023 23:02

@Hotvimto3 I completely agree.

SweetSakura · 22/03/2023 23:02

In the nicest possible way I think we want those facing court tomorrow to go in with realistic expectations but without feeling totally despondent.

Most importantly @FamilyCourtNightmare I hope you can find a way to switch off and get some sleep tonight.

Maybe we could start a new thread to discuss the (astonishingly) flawed system and our own experiences in more depth? I would love @mnhq to help campaign on this issue. And there is also #thecourtsaid who do some good work

SweetSakura · 22/03/2023 23:03

OakTreex · 22/03/2023 23:00

Everything crossed for you OP.

My advice is to show an element of willing - e.g. "While I recognise that X has made some progress, I cannot be satisfied that direct contact is suitable for X due to X, Y and Z inconsistencies which demonstrate an unwillingness to change," or similar. You don't want to be seen as shutting down the idea of contact or appear hostile - it's a death knell for mother's in FC.

Agree with this.

I mean it shouldnt be a death knell (it's natural and correct to protect our children from abuse) but that is the game I learnt to play too.

OakTreex · 22/03/2023 23:06

@SweetSakura it's awful, isn't it? Like a crazy game of chess where you have to resist base instinct, censor the truth and sugarcoat heinous abuse.

Hotvimto3 · 22/03/2023 23:09

SweetSakura · 22/03/2023 23:02

In the nicest possible way I think we want those facing court tomorrow to go in with realistic expectations but without feeling totally despondent.

Most importantly @FamilyCourtNightmare I hope you can find a way to switch off and get some sleep tonight.

Maybe we could start a new thread to discuss the (astonishingly) flawed system and our own experiences in more depth? I would love @mnhq to help campaign on this issue. And there is also #thecourtsaid who do some good work

I really hope op gets a good result but im with you on this. Im at the point of giving up. I've tried and i tbe system was against me.

Puppers · 22/03/2023 23:12

Absolutely wild that there are multiple people on a parenting forum expressing the opinion that "of course" even men who abuse their children should be allowed access to them.

SweetSakura · 22/03/2023 23:15

OakTreex · 22/03/2023 23:06

@SweetSakura it's awful, isn't it? Like a crazy game of chess where you have to resist base instinct, censor the truth and sugarcoat heinous abuse.

Exactly that. I described it to friends as like falling down a rabbit hole into a world where nothing made sense - we are clearly thinking along similar Lewis Carrollesque lines!

Wife2b · 22/03/2023 23:25

Ahh this is such a difficult one, I work in Child Protection and often my personal feelings cloud my professional position. Sometimes parents can be the worst perpetrators of abuse but for whatever reason contact is almost always awarded - even if say 3 times a year in a contact centre. I find it frustrating but my colleagues tell me that it’s better they grow up knowing them than them find them when they’re teenagers and run the risk of idolising them following rediscovery of that lost relationship (which we do see and teenagers begin running amok). I think you should expect they will give him contact but argue your case that it has to be in a contact centre funded by him and has to run to the schedule of your child with minimal disruption to his routine. Use a parent app (sorry I can’t remember the name but Cafcass should be able to point you in the right direction) that allows monitored communication between you and ex, that way if anything is said untoward etc you’ll have evidence to take back to court.

Wife2b · 22/03/2023 23:29

Given the safeguarding concerns, I’m surprised the courts didn’t direct the Local Authority to complete a Section 37 report rather than a Section 7. This will be completed by a social worker, they will provide a report following an assessment and they will attend court too. Could you perhaps not request this??

Bricklesticks · 22/03/2023 23:30

Hi OP
I've name changed because I'm about to say something I've never been brave enough to say on mumsnet before. I work at Cafcass. I'm not a social worker more back room staff.

We no longer use DAPP courses we stopped sending people on them in June 2022 https://www.cafcass.gov.uk/grown-ups/parents-and-carers/domestic-abuse/domestic-abuse-perpetrator-programme/ so your ex must be one of the last sent on one.

If things don't go as you want them to tomorrow then absolutely complain. Emphasise that you want your child to be safe and your concerns are for him.

Domestic Abuse Perpetrator Programme - Cafcass - Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service

Domestic Abuse Perpetrator Programmes help people who have been abusive, change their behaviour and develop non-abusive relationships.

https://www.cafcass.gov.uk/grown-ups/parents-and-carers/domestic-abuse/domestic-abuse-perpetrator-programme/

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 22/03/2023 23:31

Good luck

Sweetomine · 22/03/2023 23:31

Praying for you

Bricklesticks · 22/03/2023 23:32

Wife2b · 22/03/2023 23:25

Ahh this is such a difficult one, I work in Child Protection and often my personal feelings cloud my professional position. Sometimes parents can be the worst perpetrators of abuse but for whatever reason contact is almost always awarded - even if say 3 times a year in a contact centre. I find it frustrating but my colleagues tell me that it’s better they grow up knowing them than them find them when they’re teenagers and run the risk of idolising them following rediscovery of that lost relationship (which we do see and teenagers begin running amok). I think you should expect they will give him contact but argue your case that it has to be in a contact centre funded by him and has to run to the schedule of your child with minimal disruption to his routine. Use a parent app (sorry I can’t remember the name but Cafcass should be able to point you in the right direction) that allows monitored communication between you and ex, that way if anything is said untoward etc you’ll have evidence to take back to court.

This is good advice.