dinner just went to shit - why?

[Whatjusthappenedthen]

Call me overdramatic but I'm trying to process exactly what went on and dinner just now and would appreciate advice on how it went so badly and how to avoid it happening again?

First of all, we're probably all neurodiverse - DS1 and DS2 both diagnosed, I have anxiety and probably adhd but haven't been diagnosed yet, my DD acts 'strangely' for her age so I think she's probably autistic like DS1 and the same goes for my partner.

Anyway.

We sat down for a roast dinner and DD (14) grabbed the gravy jug just as I was about to reach for it. I jokingly said "it's okay, you have the gravy first" with a smile on my face, to which DD asked what I'd said and I just said I was joking, but next time ask before just taking the gravy jug.

She immediately got stroppy and started sulking, so I told her to quit it as she does this a lot and was kind of done with her behaviour for today (she had one of these strops earlier when she took offence to something else I said).

She then sat there with a face like thunder, picking at her food so I told her to stop it, then just lost it and said I couldn't cope with sitting opposite her with a face on her. Left her table and went into the other room - 30 seconds later decided that was childish and started to walk back into the dining room to be met by my partner bringing my plate to me, saying my food was going cold.
I told him it was fine and we sat back down at the table.

Started eating, had to tell DD again to drop the attitude because she was picking at her fold, sighing dramatically and looking like she was about to cry, then my partner got up and turned the tv down to a whisper in the other room (open plan room), came back and sat down but then when I said it was so quiet it may as well have gone off, the whole point I'd put it on was to avoid us all sitting in silence at the table, partner got up and turned the TV back up again then finally came back to statt eating.

He got halfway through his dinner then sat for a minute not eating, then he got up, took his plate out to the kitchen and went and sat in the other room.

Just to clarify, we don't have a rule to stay at the table until everyone's finished, so him leaving the way he did wasn't an issue, aside from the fact he didn't eat all his food like usual.

DD was on the verge of tears and ate slowly, both DS deemed oblivious and when I finished my food I went to ask dp what had been wrong and he said he'd not fancied his food because of the atmosphere (created by my telling dd off - he said I wasn't wrong to do that but it created an awkward atmosphere which put him off his food).

Now, I'm baffled by how it all spiraled - it was such a small thing that escalated and dd end dd up finishing her dinner and going upstairs in tears.

I've spoken to her and apologised for how things went, but how can I stop that happening again? Should I have just not made that joke in the first place or was dd overreacting...was the atmosphere really my fault or should my partner have ignored the fact I told dd off or was it all me and I should've just brought it up with dd after dinner?

Any advice appreciated!

LOL.

It really works. And it means I just say, "A manners DD" and she knows it's posh.

"Well that's going to be batshit" is a common thought on here

Adaptability is an underrated thing, I find. There’s room for all grades of manners!

Sounds like my life as a teenager. YABU...that "joke" (we all know it was a sarcastic comment that you are trying to now dress up as a joke) would have humiliated her and made her feel unimportant. Why the fuck should she have to ask to pour some bloody GRAVY that was put on the table for, presumably, whole table use?? But apparently you did not have to announce that you were about to use it? Would it have been okay if you had got to the gravy first but then your DP made a sarcastic "joke" to you about you having it before him? No, I think not.

It may seem like something small and insignificant to a lot of people but if you have lived through moments like this then you know.

Sorry, just caught up and rtft, I am glad you recognised that you were responsible for the issue and have rectified the situation. Hopefully you can all communicate better going forward to avoid unnecessary unpleasant situations like this again as it's never nice for anyone.

This is on you. You sound incredibly hard work. She reached for
the gravy before you did but she was “grabbing”? Why should she ask before helping herself? Ludicrous.

This is horrible. Gravy is a basic human right. Furthermore, it is widely accepted in polite society that you need not ask permission to pour gravy from a communal jug on the dining table.
You sound very dictatorial. Do you want her to feel as if she's walking on eggshells at home? I do wonder what other petty rules are enforced in your house.

You have a DD who is 14 and loves gravy. That alone is a win in this day of anorexia.
Try happily bringing food to the table and only ever saying nice things ie The gravy does look delicious tonight, might I have some next.
Consentrate on yourself. If you want lovely manners at the table - you model tham. If you see snatching of gravy, maybe next meal you say "Would anyone else like some gravy before me!". Perhaps they will take that in, perhaps they will not notice but over time the example you set is the most important. Only correct, gently, young children - under ten years of age. Praise kids when they do use great table manners.
You need to treat teenagers like adults and expect adult behaviour. It is hard, they are often rude but often amazing.

I think it sounds like you may be overly critical, which teens are hypersensitive to. I’m guilty of this too and am trying to bite my tongue these days , otherwise I nag about every tiny detail which is tiring for everyone .

I jokingly said "it's okay, you have the gravy first" with a smile on my face, to which DD asked what I'd said and I just said I was joking, but next time ask before just taking the gravy jug.

okay, but with the updates I still have no idea why she had to ask before picking up the gravy jug? Surely the gravy jug is there for people to pick up if they want gravy? It is immaterial you both went for it at the same time, why does she specifically have to ask before picking it up? It’s just weird tbh. Surely someone, somewhere on the table, really shouldn’t matter who or where, picks it up, pours some then it gets passed around for anyone who wants to use it. Or, have I gone mad 😂.

Even better give everyone a miniature gravy jug - that’s what I do. You can get them cheap from amazon.

They don't hold enough gravy for our family

Again, handled what exactly? The only thing the daughter did wrong was apparently get the gravy first. The op had a go at her, and then kept having a go. Even losing it and leaving the room. The daughter just sat there taking the bullying and being upset. She’s allowed to be upset. Most folks would have been.

there was literally nothing to handle. All the op had to do was accept she didn’t get the gravy first with good grace

You sound like a lot. Why does she need to ask permission to reach for any food in the table? You don't get an automatic right to first dibs because you're the parent. why make such an upsetting situation out of absolutely nothing?

Dd should have been told to remove herself from the table if she,wasn't going to eat.
Possibly Pmt? I used to be a bit moody as a teen.

That's the bit I don't understand. What did she do wrong going for the gravy before the op? Is there some sort of rule about gravy hierarchy?

She was going to eat until OP picked on her for no earthly reason. How would sending her away from the table help neutralise the situation?

She made a joke about gravy, daughter over reacted

She made a passive aggressive criticism disguised as a “joke” over the gravy, evidenced by the fact she said she was joking, but actually don’t take the gravy. When the daughter was upset by this she kept on telling her daughter off for having feelings (and daughter was just quietly trying not to cry rather than being disruptive). I don’t think any upset person has ever had a turn around in their mood by being told off for their emotions. This culminated in the OP telling the daughter she couldn’t bear to look at her and had to leave because of her.

It doesn’t really matter if you feel she overreacted, because people have emotions that aren’t always rational. The OP said there was another incident earlier that day so she could have been fragile at the start of the meal so the barrier to her getting upset was lower. The OP will have a much better relationship with her daughter is she accepts her negative emotions as valid rather than telling her she’s being stroppy, overreacting and to knock it off. And that’s leaving aside the fact that taking a gravy boat on the table is totally normal behaviour in the first place.

You were a bit snarky. She was a bit snarky. You were a bit childish. She was a bit sulky. You were a bit snarky again. Then your dh got a bit snarky. Poor ds's sitting in silence.

Dd is a teen, being snarky is kind of expected. No-one behaved terribly, but the combination and escalations meant it went from hardly anything to shit quickly. This happens in my family too.

Try de-escalating situations. Don't attempt jokes that have some pa behind them. Take the pressure of family meals. Have a calm chat with dd about it another time and discuss what both of you could have done better. Ideally when you're driving or walking the dog or something so it's not a serious "heart to heart".

Chalk this one up OP. You (and dd) probably owe dh and ds's an apology for an uncomfortable meal.

This is fantastic.

You need to pick your battles, particularly with teenagers. If mine wants to sulk I just leave them to it and ignore them.

It’s part of teenage angst, don’t you remember being like that? Pick your battles or you’ll spend your whole day in conflict with them over something or another. Sometimes it’s best to bite your tongue.

I would have reminded her to ask for the gravy if you felt she was being disrespectful, but teens don’t really appreciate sarcasm.

No, he's not my children's father, we've been together for around 10 years.

I did notice that someone else had asked that too and how I felt about it but I forgot the poster's name (sorry about that) - it's not easy, in all honesty I feel awkward and uncomfortable around the table because I know that he feels uncomfortable around them eating (one of my children will sniff a few times as he seems to get a runny nose when eating and I know my partner feels sick if he hears someone blowing their nose, he doesn't react but because I know it will be bothering him, I never know whether to ask my son to go and blow his nose in the bathroom, leave it, or what).
Mealtimes when we all eat together seem to be a constant stream of him looking uncomfortable with his eyes darting sideways at the children all the time, telling my youngest (11 so not very young but ADHD) to stop smiling/laughing/cut his food into smaller pieces (DS tend to pick up a whole chicken nuggets sized piece of food and bite into it, it doesn't really bother me as we're at home but my partner doesnt like it) etc.

Or I start telling them about the things listed above if he doesn't, to avoid him doing it because his voice has a more aggressive tone than mine and I don't want them to feel upset or embarrassed - which is ironic as that's exactly how I made DD feel yesterday!

It's all a bit of a mess and I feel much more relaxed when DP isn't at the table, so as a result the children tend to eat with me sitting at the table with them/in the same room and then me and DP eat later, apart from Sundays when we all eat together.

Wtf, your partner is vile. And instead of protecting your kids from him, your preempt all his nasty little digs and deliver them yourself?! Your poor kids are going to have complexes around food and eating and must be constantly on edge and anxious!

You*

Well obviously I hate myself for doing that and the majority I just leave or deal with quietly - smile and shake my head at my DS when he's flapping his arms/being silly, miming using a knife when he's picking up huge bits of food on his fork, etc.

Whereas my partner would say "can you cut your food properly" in a kind of, well, whilst frowning, for a start off.

It's so hard to explain.

But then, he makes little 'jokes' towards me, too. Like, I was tidying up the kitchen earlier and washing up, he came in and stood looking at me so I asked what was wrong, he said "just came in to see what you were building, there was so much noise".
I explained that the saucepans had just been piled in the drawer so I couldn't open it, which was the reason for some of the clattering, then I cant actually remember what he said but it came across as quite sarcastic.

I don't know whether we're both as bad as each other or it's really just me, but I do know that you're all right, I really need to get some help to avoid fucking my children up even more than I have already!