dinner just went to shit - why?

[Whatjusthappenedthen]

Call me overdramatic but I'm trying to process exactly what went on and dinner just now and would appreciate advice on how it went so badly and how to avoid it happening again?

First of all, we're probably all neurodiverse - DS1 and DS2 both diagnosed, I have anxiety and probably adhd but haven't been diagnosed yet, my DD acts 'strangely' for her age so I think she's probably autistic like DS1 and the same goes for my partner.

Anyway.

We sat down for a roast dinner and DD (14) grabbed the gravy jug just as I was about to reach for it. I jokingly said "it's okay, you have the gravy first" with a smile on my face, to which DD asked what I'd said and I just said I was joking, but next time ask before just taking the gravy jug.

She immediately got stroppy and started sulking, so I told her to quit it as she does this a lot and was kind of done with her behaviour for today (she had one of these strops earlier when she took offence to something else I said).

She then sat there with a face like thunder, picking at her food so I told her to stop it, then just lost it and said I couldn't cope with sitting opposite her with a face on her. Left her table and went into the other room - 30 seconds later decided that was childish and started to walk back into the dining room to be met by my partner bringing my plate to me, saying my food was going cold.
I told him it was fine and we sat back down at the table.

Started eating, had to tell DD again to drop the attitude because she was picking at her fold, sighing dramatically and looking like she was about to cry, then my partner got up and turned the tv down to a whisper in the other room (open plan room), came back and sat down but then when I said it was so quiet it may as well have gone off, the whole point I'd put it on was to avoid us all sitting in silence at the table, partner got up and turned the TV back up again then finally came back to statt eating.

He got halfway through his dinner then sat for a minute not eating, then he got up, took his plate out to the kitchen and went and sat in the other room.

Just to clarify, we don't have a rule to stay at the table until everyone's finished, so him leaving the way he did wasn't an issue, aside from the fact he didn't eat all his food like usual.

DD was on the verge of tears and ate slowly, both DS deemed oblivious and when I finished my food I went to ask dp what had been wrong and he said he'd not fancied his food because of the atmosphere (created by my telling dd off - he said I wasn't wrong to do that but it created an awkward atmosphere which put him off his food).

Now, I'm baffled by how it all spiraled - it was such a small thing that escalated and dd end dd up finishing her dinner and going upstairs in tears.

I've spoken to her and apologised for how things went, but how can I stop that happening again? Should I have just not made that joke in the first place or was dd overreacting...was the atmosphere really my fault or should my partner have ignored the fact I told dd off or was it all me and I should've just brought it up with dd after dinner?

Any advice appreciated!

‘Pills’ are a perfectly valid treatment option for many people. It’ll be up to the OP and her GP to decide that is the most suitable course of action for her.

It just seems a lot of drama over nothing. It just seems such a pointless waste of energy over such trivial stuff. Maybe just pick your battles OP and don’t sweat the small stuff.

Surely whoever gets the jug first has the gravy first. Do you have a hierarchy? I think you caused the atmosphere and then continued it by acting childish.

How do you know she doesn’t have therapy and coping mechanisms as well as the perfectly valid choice to medicate a mental health issue?

Well done for taking it all on board OP. I think the best thing you can do is agree that no one has to sit down together for food even on a Sunday. Honestly it sounds like a stressful experience all round. If it’s not bringing you together in an enjoyable way why bother?!

We rarely eat as a family now (largely because my DH can be a lot like you) we just make a joke and when everyone comes to get their dinner I shout “to your corners!”

now the kids are much older we do enjoy meals out together now and then and they will hang out in the kitchen altogether to chat whilst I cook so it’s not like we don’t spend time together.

give yourselves a break and avoid the unnecessary stress of it all!

Try not being a reactive, nasty………..

Did you ask if you can have the gravy jug ? you both went for it in the same time, over dramatic and unnecessary , I agree with your husband, you created a problem where there wasn’t one

If the gravy was next to the op, dd should have said "please could you pass the gravy?".

This isn't about gravy, it's about 14 year olds who know every button to press and string to pull. I understand about the neurodiversities but but that doesn't stop those with a neurodiversity from being a shit when the fancy takes them.

@Whatjusthappenedthen

I don’t think neurodiversity has anything to do with this!

Just chill out all of you! Set the tone as the adult and don’t sweat the small stuff.

Well done for being open-minded with the opinions here. I do think you created a situation for no reason then went off in a sulk, coming back and complaining about DD's less major sulk and causing a bit of bad feeling all around. Try to model the behaviour you expect from her.

This. Your poor daughter. YABU here - the WHOLE thing was on YOU.

Ugh, this thread has genuinely given me trauma flashbacks of toxic family dinnertime with my family.

I was the eldest daughter and my family were determined to paint me as a rude monster at any opportunity to suit their narrative. I'm still working with a therapist to deal with the fact that I was, as a minor, goaded into a 'surly' reaction to start fights and be made a scapegoat for my parents' boredom and marital tensions.

OP, you've got an opportunity to cut this pipeline of poison off at the source here and now. Please take this opportunity.

I think neurodiversity has everything to do with it.

@Whatjusthappenedthen please have a look into Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD) in ADHD and autism. It is honestly life changing when you understand what it is, and it is what leapt out at me from the OP when you said you are a ND household for your daughter's reaction and your own.

The two things that come to mind are:

1.I'm not aware of any etiquette custom that would require people to ask before reaching for something at their own home dinner table.

2.After the initial comment about sulking (and if you hadn't mentioned it, it might have dissipated), to return to the subject again was carping and counter-productive. Even if you did feel compelled to mention it, you could have said something that was less combative than telling her to "quit." What if you said instead said something in a more pleasant voice like, "Oh, please, honey, don't let that spoil our nice dinner."

@MsAmerica I would absolutely expect every member of the family either to offer the serving dish to the person next to them before serving themselves and to ask for the gravy to be passed, preferably having offered it to someone else first.

It's basic good manners.

Teenagers brains are devoping at a fantastic rate. It’s not the whole brain at once though. The first part of the brain to go through a ‘growth spurt’ is the amygdala. The main job of the amydala is to sense threat. (It probabaly makes evolutionary sense for this to develop first.) This means teenages are highly sensitive to threat and percieved threat. It also means that sometimes neutral stimuli are seen as threatening. So, you just have to make sure that the way you interact with your teenagers is, for the most part, clearly positive.

All right. Clearly you and I have different expectations, and I wonder if you make no distinctions between public and home dining. Of course it does make sense to ask for the gravy to be passed - unless it's right in front of you. In that case it seems absurd.

I also realize now that we have no idea what the OP was about to do. She doesn't say that she was about to offer it to someone else.

But if neurodiversity doesn’t have anything to do with it, don’t you think ‘just chilling out and setting the tone’ would be easy, and come naturally…………?

It clearly doesn’t - so isn’t there just a chance that something else might be at play?

The OP has said the people explaining how she should have handled it is really helpful, because she doesn’t know. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MsAmerica if people don't eat properly and courteously at home, how can they be confident when eating out?

Napkins, knives, using a butter knife, tasting before seasoning, not grabbing or taking more than one's share.

You are upset over your daughter reaching for the gravy jug? Have I read this right ?

She's probably confused as to why she is expected to ask if she can help herself to gravy. She's 14!

I think you mean you ending up like your mother.

Also, stop labeling your DD. She really isn't you. She's her own person.

Maybe some therapy for you to learn about and recognize toxic patterns from your family.

In our house we have grades of manners. ABCD.

A - Restaurants and grandparents. DD knows it's all manners on deck. Asking people if they would like some first, giving the last piece to others, excusing oneself, clearing up and doing the dishes (at grandparents).

B - Nice family dinners. Nice manners, nothing overegged. You can grab the gravy but not over someone else's plate.

C - Do basically what you like. Relaxed and pretty much everything except pigginess goes. Saturday night takeaway style.
D - Lick your plate, use your fingers, behave like a raging pig. Family BBQs and pizza. When we're sick or can't be bothered. Only when specifically allowed.

This way, DD has 'lovely manners' but every day is not like we're at the Palace.

MrsTP, I read the ‘grades of manners’ and thought, we’ll, that’s going to be batshit.

But you have perfectly described our family mealtime manners too.