Do you think you're a nice person?

[haioopl]

I go out of my way for friends and will consider other’s feelings etc. But this is mostly for my own gain, to feel liked and needed. I can be incredibly selfish and often have very selfish thoughts. Is anyone truly nice? Truly genuine?

My SIL once wrote repeatedly in text messages to me that she was "a nice person" "a good person".

Now, if someone has to TELL you they are a nice person, usually they aren't 🤣

@Frankola

Yep. My MIL is “very nice”, with strings attached of course. Nice does not mean good.

There's always strings 🤣

I think ‘nice’, like bloody ‘kindness’, is just a means of telling people to put up and shit up generally.

I think I’ve reached a point in my life that can be summed up by the ‘I’ve no more fucks to give’ song. (m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqbk9cDX0l0)

I really don’t care if anyone thinks I’m ‘nice’ any longer.

and I’ve really come to appreciate and admire those (often older) women who really don’t give a toss about being nice any longer.

No. I don't aspire to be nice.

You can't possibly know the full consequences of someone's actions on them...you see what people want you to see. You also don't know what other past actions have shaped their current life or even, in full, what their current life is.

Karma does not mean chance doesn't exist and that we can control everything. It also doesn't mean that people always get what they deserve, because clearly they don't. (And as Oscar Wilde said, for most of us that's a good thing.)

It's just the idea that your actions now shape your future.

I could probably derail the thread for hours discussing this philosophy but I don't think I will. To explain my views on it fully, I'd have to say some things that would piss a lot of people off, and that really isn't my intention.

I'll just reiterate that karma does not mean we live in a just and fair world where everyone gets what they deserve and chance doesn't exist. Clearly we don't and not many major philosophies are based on the premise that we do. Some people have a weird idea about fairness anyway. For example, I can't get behind this idea that if a married man shags another woman and they shack up together, then karma, or justice as people often take it to mean, dictates that she should be left heartbroken while he just has more cheating sex.

And I'll add that we tend to have way more choices than we realise, and often look to other things to deny that we have these choices, because they're hard and painful and we don't always want to have the responsibility of choice. It also helps, in a funny way, to be a bit more self centred in that we look less at other people and what we feel their lives should be, and more at our own and what we want that to be, and what can be done to get there.

The question of what it means to be a nice person is almost as complicated as this.

No one does outside of the person it applies to. It’s naive and/or hopeful to think a ‘bad’ person is naturally going to be negatively impacted or wracked with guilt/regret as a result of their actions.

anyway, karma is a matter of faith rather that observable fact. Believing it exists is quite different to it actually being the case.

In my experience everyone I ever met, who said they were, " nice kind intelligence smart and the most vomit inducing empaths. Turned out to be the twats. People are different in certain situations. Catch me in one and you would see me as kind. See me in another and you would say what a bitch.

Also about the Karma thing . I know a few people there entire life they have been sadistic assholes and haven't suffered for it. And neither did their parents or friends. 😒

It’s naive and/or hopeful to think a ‘bad’ person is naturally going to be negatively impacted or wracked with guilt/regret as a result of their actions.

That's not what karma is. If anything, investing too much in wanting people to get comeuppance is against the philosophy. See my point about the benefits of being a bit self-centred in this regard.

anyway, karma is a matter of faith rather that observable fact.

It's a philosophy that people are free to reject, although it does help to have an understanding of what it is before deciding what to do with it.

But it absolutely is not the belief that the world is just and fair and bad things always happen to bad guys. To bring it back to the thread topic, it's not even always clear who the good and bad guys are. We're all the heroes of some people's stories and the villains of others, and sometimes we're both.

There are loads of genuinely nice people, and if they are doing it for their own selfish reasons when that is good as there is double motivation.

I always thought I was a nice person and then I was completely walked all over by several people in my life including my Ex and have become way more selfish. I don’t think it’s great to have to assume that others aren’t going to give as much as you, I don’t like living like this, but unfortunately not everyone is nice.

I wish nice people didn’t get taken for granted!

I general yes. I'm there for my friends and family where they need me. But I don't suffer fools gladly. And that doesn't always go down well.

I would find it a little insulting if someone called me nice.

It's one of those loaded words used to keep women in their place.

Being nice = polite/ quiet/agreeable/meek/coy/subservient.

The word nice derives from the Latin word nescius which means ignorant or unaware.
Like calling someone a dumb bunny.

I don't mind words like courageous, strong, empathic but nice??

Funnily enough whenever I'm frank about my shortcomings on MN, I usually get at least one person telling me that I sound horrible, that I don't see how badly I come across, and that I must have no friends.

It's really funny, because I agree with you - people who obsess about their niceness and goodness are the worst sort of twats.

I'm aware of my failings, but I also have a lot of great qualities, which are presumably why I've got plenty of friends willing to overlook my failings, and always have really strong work relationships. I just don't lie about who I am, or have any illusions about myself.

I'm fair and decent to people, I'm not always nice, can be selfish, often challenge and I do say no often. However, I'm fair with it, I listen to people, consider their circumstances/feelings, and think about my actions/words before I do anything, I can always justify what I do or don't do, and I make myself aware of what is going on around me and try not to act like a dick.
So am I nice? not always but I have been told by some that what they see is what they get, they know where they stand with me, I never complain/bitch etc and they like that about me.
So maybe being nice isn't everything, maybe people need to see your flaws, maybe they need honesty, maybe being nice all the time is actually more harmful in the long run, who knows?

We get a lot of self-described "people pleasers" on here. They think they're really nice. I think they're awful. And it would seem that a lot of people offline agree, because they're usually on here complaining that nobody is treating them the way they should, even though they're so nice.

I think I am quite outwardly, convincingly nice (I hear it a lot from other people), but it's not something that I like about myself - I'm just unassertive. My meek and mildness irritates me. In actual fact I am quite angry most of the time. Having said that, the people that actually know me well seem to think that underneath all of that I'm kind, which I like.

I just don't think it's that clear cut. Yes, generally I think I'm nice. I'm kind to people, a natural 'helper', want people to feel good about themselves and be happy, and I often help to make things work and give people what they need and care for others. I'm also vain, self-interested, sometimes self-absorbed and selfish, and have done things - one in particular - that I'm not proud of. And actually that one thing, I should feel far worse about than I actually do. Human beings are complicated.

No. I'm a right cunt.

I don't see what's wrong with being 'nice'. It means you make an effort to make others feel happy, often at your own expense. It's not necessarily a good trait to have for your own personal well being. People pleasers get so much stick on here. I'm a people pleaser and I don't do it just to be liked, I genuinely hate upsetting other people even if it means it has a negative effect on me.
To me the 'awful' people are those that don't care about other people's feelings so are happy to just be rude to everyone and it just spreads negativity. It's rife on Mumsnet threads.

What is nice? If it's someone who goes out of their way to do favours for other people then no, I'm not like that, because I think that's a recipe for being taken advantage of. I'm decent, honest, fair-minded and loyal, I give to charity (anonymously), I would never take advantage of someone or cheat or lie. I'm not jealous or bitter. I'm a bit judgey sometimes and I put my own needs and those of my family first, but I think most people do that. I'm also cynical as hell and have no time for liars, cheeky fuckers, idiots and aggressive twats. Honestly, I don't really care if I'm nice, I think it's more important to have good boundaries and self-esteem.

There is a big diifference to being nice to everyone at your own expense and being nasty though.
I don't really care if I'm nice, I think it's more important to have good boundaries and self-esteem.
Absolutely.

Where does "being nice" end if you have poor boundaries, and what message does it teach our daughters?
Going out late to a club because your friends have asked you but you don't really want to go?
Having sex when you don't really want to?
Joining in with racist jokes because you don't want to upset your group?
Drinking more than you would like because you don't want to offend?
Lending money to someone because they are skint- even though you know you won't see the money again?
Accepting a lift from someone who is clearly over the alcohol limit?

The world is full of people who will take advantage of those that are soft, nice or submissive.

You can live life with empathy and humanity while having self worth and boundaries.
In fact the people who are most benevolent are the strongest and most courageous amongst us- because they speak up when they see wrongdoing, call out unfairness, even if it makes them unpopular.

Good response, @speakout. And @maranella ’s post is also worth a read for the people-pleasers, as a model of a life in which being a decent human being who tries to act well and ethically is (rightly) considered an entirely separate issue to being ‘nice’ or generally liked.