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Original poster

Schoolgirl kicked in head by boy in unisex toilets- is the idea of unisex unworkable?

347 replies

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 15/03/2023 12:50

A boy in a school toilets in Coventry has kicked in a door in in an attempt to photograph a 13 yr old girl and she has received head injuries.
When unisex toilets were introduced we were told they would be closely monitored but that is clearly ineffective and they are unsafe for girls.
Do you think they should be abolished?

Yabu Allow them
Yanbu Abolish them.

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-schoolgirl-taken-hospital-after-26418069

OP posts:
SoonToBeQueenCamilla · 15/03/2023 16:20

Whatwouldscullydo · 15/03/2023 13:40

I'm also extremely troubled that keeping girls safe is apparently only ok of we somehow eradicate every part of every problem ( which is obviously not possible ) because otherwise its not worth doing ?

We don't hold any thing else to that standard. Seat belts sometimes hurt people /are responsible for deaths. But we don't forgo them because they save more people than they hurt.

We don't remove paracetamol from the shelves because some people are allergic or it doesn't work for them.

But girls? Can't be kept safe /have privacy because removing the boys would only reduce and not eliminate the harm completely.

Boys are gonna do it anyway so why worry about it? The low behaviour expectations should worry people more but instead let's focus on how horrid the girls are for wanting their own.spaces cos thats the real issue 🙄

This.

ItsShiela · 15/03/2023 16:21

Sex and gender always used to mean the same thing. It's only in the last, say, 10 years, that they now mean something different due to the invention of 'gender identity'.

lifeturnsonadime · 15/03/2023 16:24

I think it is really sinister how our schools have been targeted by gender ideologists.

Schools have been teaching gender as fact, making toilets unisex, socially transitioning children etc. seemingly overreaching the Equality Act without any consultation.

All of this to normalise, in the young, an ideology that most don't believe in and to remove safeguarding for women and girls.

Who benefits when children are desensitised in this way?

How has our state education system been allowed to be used in this way?

FourTeaFallOut · 15/03/2023 16:31

It's such an odd faith based belief to take over schools. Let's hope the flat earthers don't get any tips from stonewall's handbook of institutional creep or the globes from the geography department will be locked in the abandoned single sex toilets.

Helleofabore · 15/03/2023 16:31

Who also benefits in telling girls that they have to wait to have single sex toilets while the bigger issue of male violence is sorted?

I mean, hey girls! Single sex toilets are NOT the issue so don't worry. We will just sort all the other crap out and maybe, just maybe, later in years to come, your other issues will be considered.

Rather than 'yes, there is a huge issue with male violence and we are NOT going to add to your risk of being a victim of male violence and we are not going to add to your emotional load by removing single sex toilets or reducing the number of single sex toilets at all. Meanwhile, we will continue to fight to reduce or to eradicate male violence experienced at school.'

Dayvi · 15/03/2023 16:33

ItsShiela · 15/03/2023 16:21

Sex and gender always used to mean the same thing. It's only in the last, say, 10 years, that they now mean something different due to the invention of 'gender identity'.

I believe it was considered separate in academia to differentiate between actual sex and societal gender roles, but in the real world it was certainly used interchangeably.

It's all a deliberate sleight of hand really though isn't it, ideologists taking advantage of both uses in order to conclude they are the sex they say they are, because thats what their gender identity is.

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 15/03/2023 16:36

Mixed sex toilets are the norm in Denmark and other Nordic countries. It is not the toilets that are the problem, it is the way we are bringing up some boys to be violent sexist thugs.

RichardBarrister · 15/03/2023 16:37

CMO · 15/03/2023 14:55

There were a small number of girls(and boys) that wanted gender specific toilets so we provided one of each and the rest are gender neutral. The gender neutral ones are used just as much as the two gender specific ones. We do regular pupil consulations around a whole host of things and the toilets have never been raised as an issue.

Show quote history

Are there any other serious safeguarding policies your school outsources to your students to determine?

Whatwouldscullydo · 15/03/2023 16:41

Are there any other serious safeguarding policies your school outsources to your students to determine?

I'm.wondering how on one hand staff would be conscious enough to know not to leave themselves alone with a student and a shut door, not be alone in a lift with one student to avoid allegations of sexual activities or actual sexual activities etc taking place then think , oh I know,.let's give horny teens an enclosed space to have sex in knowing 2 sets if feet will not be visible in the gaps..

swallowedAfly · 15/03/2023 16:43

We'll just tell the girls to go pee in a nordic country then shall we?

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 15/03/2023 16:46

ChateauMargaux · 15/03/2023 16:08

We are telling girls that they do not need safe spaces and that if they ask for them, they will be educated. They reflect on this, along with the hundreds of other things in the world that they are trying to make sense of, and they try to make sense of why this makes them feel uncomfortable, why they don't like being cat called, being groped on the bus, being talked over, being stared at... when it is a normalised every day experience for them.

One day they will wonder why women are seen as lesser humans, there for the amusement of men, they will wonder why all the other women stood by, did nothing and allowed it to happen. They will get angry, they will cry and they will wonder why they were sacrificed in the name of progress.

Many will, and are already starting to, turn away from that which makes them a target for this behaviour, declare themselves not female, disguise and change their bodies and find a way to become invisible.

Very much agree on all of this.

RichardBarrister · 15/03/2023 16:47

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 15/03/2023 16:36

Mixed sex toilets are the norm in Denmark and other Nordic countries. It is not the toilets that are the problem, it is the way we are bringing up some boys to be violent sexist thugs.

Quite a lot of things happen in other countries. It doesn’t mean it is ok.

That’s like my kids wanting to do something and their argument is “well everyone else is going”. I generally probe that assertion further as well and find that that is not the case.

So, what evidence has been produced anywhere that shows that mixed sex facilities are safe or dignified for girls?

Spoiler alert, there isn’t any.

Why have we got charities fundraising for single sex toilets for girls in India? Do our girls not deserve the same standards as those girls?

jellyfrizz · 15/03/2023 16:47

www.gov.uk/government/news/all-public-buildings-to-have-separate-male-and-female-toilets

"The move follows a call for evidence which gathered a wide range of views, including from pregnant women, older people, disabled people and people who come under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.
The rise in ‘gender neutral’ toilets raised safety concerns from women who feel they are losing privacy and being unfairly disadvantaged.
Separate unisex (or universal) toilets should be provided if there is space, but should not come at the expense of female toilets."

Dayvi · 15/03/2023 16:59

swallowedAfly · 15/03/2023 16:43

We'll just tell the girls to go pee in a nordic country then shall we?

It's expensive to be a woman. Especially if they have to get a flight every time they want to pee.

PriamFarrl · 15/03/2023 17:01

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 15/03/2023 13:15

This really isn't normal behaviour, and I do think the unisex toilets is a bit of a red herring. I work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine. I think the key is giving students options so they can chose what they feel comfortable with.

The issue is the boy feeling entitled to take photos of the girl. If he wasn't doing it in the toilets, he would be upskirting on the bus, or cornering girls in a less visible part of the playground, or something else.

Let's be realistic, you don't go from being someone who's interacting with girls normally to kicking down a toilet door just because the toilets are now unisex- there's more to it than that.

Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems. Schools really need to take a zero tolerance approach. Far to many approaches seem to focus on rescuing the boys, rather than keeping the girls safe. This won't be a first offence, and he probably should have been excluded from the school by now.

The police also tend to be very unwilling to get involved with sexual assault that's happened inside a school- even if it's fairly obvious a crime has been committed. Even when there's good CCTV evidence, or another student has filmed what is going on, they're often just not interested and want the school to deal with it. Or they'll "have a word" with the boy, but actually take no action.

Personally, I think we need to be dealing with the growing issue of male violence in schools, not focusing on toilets.

I quite agree. I’m opposed to blanket unisex toilets in school. In an idea world there would be unisex as well as single sex and then everyone is catered for.

As you said this wasn’t a well behaved boy who has suddenly decided to do this because of mixed sex toilets.

There are two separate problems here that are being confused.

The first is mixed sex toilets that are leaving girls feeling vulnerable.

The second is the way boys are behaving towards girls.

Personally I feel that the second is the far bigger problem. However I do think that all schools should maintain single sex toilets alongside mixed.

swallowedAfly · 15/03/2023 17:03

Whereas sanity dictates that whilst the second is the reality single sex toilets are needed.

Who is this 'everyone' that isn't catered for by male or female toilets?

Dayvi · 15/03/2023 17:03

Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems.

It will however go a long way to reducing the problem.

swallowedAfly · 15/03/2023 17:09

Everyone is male or female and therefore catered for by single sex toilets.

If a very small number of people can't handle that reality then I guess we could have a separate toilet designated for them in school as opposed to screwing over girls.

Disabled toilets didn't eradicate non disabled toilets and take away the rights of whole groups of people - they were something extra catering to a population who needed an accommodation, they didn't demand anything be taken away from anyone else.

If the 'everyone' you're talking about is people with gender confusion or utter conviction that they are not the sex they are or are in fact no sex at all then they can be, if necessary, catered for as an additional facility in proportion to the numbers requiring that facility. No need to take away legal rights to single sex facilities and put girls at risk in the process.

RichardBarrister · 15/03/2023 17:12

There are two separate problems here that are being confused.
The first is mixed sex toilets that are leaving girls feeling vulnerable.
The second is the way boys are behaving towards girls.
Personally I feel that the second is the far bigger problem. However I do think that all schools should maintain single sex toilets alongside mixed.

Do you think that schools sending girls (and boys) the message that girls have no right or need for spaces away from boys is helping or hindering schools from dealing with the second issue?

Do girls deserve to feel safe and to not have their dignity removed while they sort that out?

Do you agree that the majority of toilets should be single sex to give suitable provision to the greatest number of students with a few unisex in addition?

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/03/2023 17:13

I fully accept that this boy may have been sexually or physically violent towards girls prior to this incident in an escalating pattern which was not dealt with by the school and his behaviour was not caused by unisex toilets.

What I find incredible is that the people making that argument are saying it in defence of unisex toilets rather than understanding that there's a connection between disregarding girls being assaulted in school and disregarding girls by removing single sex toilets. BOTH show utter contempt for the girls.

Naunet · 15/03/2023 17:15

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 15/03/2023 13:22

But if male violence is an issue in a school, girls often can't use the toilets safely, even if they are single sex.

There's not a magical forcefield at the entrance to a female toilet that keeps the boys out.

Show quote history

So presumably you don’t lock your front door when you leave the house to go to work, because if someone wanted to break into your house, they would, or are you a massive fucking hypocrite?

Dayvi · 15/03/2023 17:18

There's not a magical forcefield at the entrance to a female toilet that keeps the boys out.

No, but single sex toilets means women and girls can challenge / report it if a male goes in anyway. At the moment they have to just put up with it

Aurorabored · 15/03/2023 17:18

It wasn’t one boy forcing toilet doors open to take pictures or video of girls. It was boys plural. There were no working locks left on the toilet doors because of them being forced open. The school had to know that.

ItsShiela · 15/03/2023 17:19

Naunet · 15/03/2023 17:15

So presumably you don’t lock your front door when you leave the house to go to work, because if someone wanted to break into your house, they would, or are you a massive fucking hypocrite?

Show quote history

Exactly. The argument is so friggin immature. It's akin to everyone else is sticking their head in the oven, maturity-wise and logic-wise. Why lock your house, @Postapocalypticcowgirl , after all, it's not as if locking your house is a "magical forcefield at the entrance that will keep burglars out".

If people are going to break into your house they will, so what's the point in locking it, @Postapocalypticcowgirl ?

Verv · 15/03/2023 17:19

Unisex facilities enable assaults like this because it removes others ability to question or take note when a male enters a female sex protected space.