Schoolgirl kicked in head by boy in unisex toilets- is the idea of unisex unworkable?

Here's one of those threads where, were you not to have a polling function, given the spread of posts - you might think that people were for and against mixed sexed toilets in equal measure.

Of course kids should be afforded a single sexed space to go to the loo.

Which is why a space where the violent thug is excluded and if he attempts to enter girls and women are empowered to question this or have him removed is important.

As the violent thugs are more likely to be male (eg 98% of those in prison for violent crimes are male) then that is a good way to exclude on a risk based approach.

That poor girl
Just because some girls can be violent towards other girls in a single sex loo doesn't mean that its acceptable to increase the risk to the girls by throwing in the boys too. We cant keep the kids safe so we will make it a free for all cos at least then we get a stonewall certificate?

The fact a school would rather allow the boys to take photos of girls and kick doors in on them than keep girls safe ajd say no, says everything u need to know about what society really thinks of women and girls.

But sexual assaults, up skirting, hidden cameras in toilets all happen in schools where there are no unisex toilets.

So let’s put the predators in with the prey and see if that helps?

Which is why a space where the violent thug is excluded and if he attempts to enter girls and women are empowered to question this or have him removed is important.

As the violent thugs are more likely to be male (eg 98% of those in prison for violent crimes are male) then that is a good way to exclude on a risk based approach.

Exactly. Step number one.

Schools don’t have the answers - do they care so little about the welfare of girls? If it was so good for everyone why would they not want to prove it?

Schools do have the answer though- the answer is to take a hard line on boys harassing female students, and an even harder line if it goes beyond that. Some schools do this, and therefore their female students are genuinely safe in school. Often, it only takes one or two exclusions for most of the boys to realise their behaviour really isn't okay, and there is a culture change in the school.

Some schools follow approaches that prioritise the male student, focusing on restoration and education. And often these approaches don't work, and the male student's behaviour escalates and becomes part of a wider culture.

It genuinely has nothing to do with the type of toilet.

Although there obviously should be sufficient single sex provision for everyone who wants them.

Posters that minimise whats being done to girls as bullying are missing the point. Its sexual harassment, and schools are illegally facilitating boys sexually harassing the girls.

Yanbu, they are an awful

"work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine."

Of course it works fine, because the girls have a choice!! Don't be dim.

People who are saying girls don't need single sex toilets for their dignity and safety in schools because predators are going to predator anyway are out of their fucking minds.

Either that or they are the parents of trans girls who don't care which female child they trample on in the name of their male child's identity.

Only got to look at what Jamie Lee Curtis is trying to do in the Oscars to see what this attitude does to the rights of women and girls.

To be clear, I do think this isn't ideal- there should be a choice available.

But the focus on toilets only is missing the point.

I think it IS the point where single sex toilets have been almost entirely removed.

As a pp said, while we sort out the wider problem of male sexual violence against girls, why don’t we at least give a girls a place to go that is away from boys when they are undressed and vulnerable?

This is not an ‘either or’, we can do both. I am concerned at the number of claimed school staff that have no regard for the feelings or safety of teenage girls. The concept of girls privacy from boys (and vice versa for that matter - boys deserve and want privacy too) seems to have gone out if the window. Who benefits from that and why are people arguing in favour?

I'm also extremely troubled that keeping girls safe is apparently only ok of we somehow eradicate every part of every problem ( which is obviously not possible ) because otherwise its not worth doing ?

We don't hold any thing else to that standard. Seat belts sometimes hurt people /are responsible for deaths. But we don't forgo them because they save more people than they hurt.

We don't remove paracetamol from the shelves because some people are allergic or it doesn't work for them.

But girls? Can't be kept safe /have privacy because removing the boys would only reduce and not eliminate the harm completely.

Boys are gonna do it anyway so why worry about it? The low behaviour expectations should worry people more but instead let's focus on how horrid the girls are for wanting their own.spaces cos thats the real issue 🙄

Depending on the age and state of dress of these girls they're photographing, these boys are quite possibly creating child pornography at fucking school - they are at least trying to.

Lets not forget schools are legally required to install same sex toilets.

I have copied and pasted a previous post of mine. Apologies for the length. But it’s relevant to those who are talking about girl violence. If you want to skip most of it, just read 7. and click the bottom link

The below is taken from this and I have added some personal bits:

www.wcportables.co.uk/blog/why-public-toilet-doors-do-not-reach-the-floor/

Some reasons why public toilet doors do not reach the floor

1. Ideal in cases of emergency: The gap could help other users notice someone who has collapsed or fainted in an enclosed stall. In these circumstances, a toilet user or a member of an emergency team can squeeze through the gaps to provide help to the affected individual. It could be the difference in a life-threatening situation.
   
   My friends and I saw an arm sticking out the door gap in a nightclub. My friend shimmied over the top. There was a girl in there grey coloured, covered in vomit and unconscious. We moved her so the door could open (inwards) and called an ambulance. It happened so quickly and never thought about it until my own child went to university.
   
   
   There are hundreds of thousands of epileptics in this country whose seizures aren’t controlled by medication. Sometimes people feel ill before a seizure, sometimes not and wouldn’t have no time to pull a cord.
   
   
   
2. The overall cost is cheaper. Designing and constructing a door that extends to the floor might cost more. This could be due to the complexity of the design, material and labour hours. This may explain why some management teams opt for toilet doors that have a considerable gap from the floor.
   
   Also means the doors don’t get jammed as they warp.
   
   
3. It makes cleaning easier: Cleaners can easily extend the floor mops into the stalls without having to open the doors. They can also evaluate the state of the toilet via the gap between the floor and door. It saves cleaning time and encourages frequent or a short interval cleaning routine.
   
   They can get to all crevices, particularly with all sorts of fluids not encrusting the door.
   
   
4. Faster escape of bad odour: Toilet is a natural environment for the release of bad odour. The gap between the door and the floor provides a quick escape of the foul smell that was generated by previous users.
   It helps your toilet experience to become bearable. Without the gap, the odour is sustained in a stall and becomes unbearable to subsequent users
   
   
5. Easy to determine availability: The uniqueness of modern-day toilet locks can make it quite hard to tell if a stall is empty. As some toilets use a green indication for a vacant facility and red for those occupied. Nothing beats the eyes test of glancing through the gap for any sign of occupancy.
   
   As an ex-teacher I used to do sweeps of the toilet blocks in a fire practice. If a cubicle was locked, I gave a
   shout then looked under the gap. What would I have done in a real emergency with a locked full-length door? I don’t know
   
   
6. Ensures the toilet queue flows: Toilets with doors of this nature could negatively impact people’s privacy. When individuals sense others can listen to their business that easily, they are prone to wrap up quickly.
   
   
7. Reduced bad toilet habits or behaviours: As we have earlier indicated, raised toilet doors can limit the privacy of users. With this in mind, people will refrain from exhibiting poor behaviour. The embarrassment of being spotted acting inappropriately will ensure people err on the side of caution.
   
   It was documented and discussed that there one as least one rape per school day in U.K. schools reported (Parliament and BBC article). As a teacher I am shocked but wondered where these can happen. Obviously anywhere that decreases visibility increases the chance of bad things happening - particularly if it’s mixed sexed toilets so each sex has a reason to be there. Also drug taking.
   
   Adrian Chiles did an article in the Guardian about how much he liked the new gender neutral toilets with their full length doors. This was due to it being a much nicer experience for him to sit down poo in peace as he was traumatised by children looking over at him at school when he was on the toilet. He suggested piped music to make the experience even better. Obviously hadn’t even crossed his mind about the very, very good safety and hygiene reasons for toilets being designed as they are.
   
   Link for rapes in schools evidence:
   www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34138287

I agree.

And the whatabouterry of girl on girl violence in loos is a false equivalence.

Girl on girl violence is bullying and takes place in loos because there are likely no windows or ease of escape.

Boy on girl violence / harassment is specifically sexual when a female is in a very vulnerable physical position sitting on the loo.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

Postapocalypticcowgirl · Today 13:15

This really isn't normal behaviour, and I do think the unisex toilets is a bit of a red herring. I work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine. I think the key is giving students options so they can chose what they feel comfortable with.

So who uses the unisex toilets?
What is your definition of 'working fine'? Is it somehow better than when there were only single sex toilets? Did one sex get a reduction in their toilet provision to enable the provision of mixed sex ones?

The “it’s not unisex toilets that are the problem” posters remind me of the pro-gun lobby in the US who argue that it’s not guns that are dangerous but the humans who use them.

That boys motivation around sexual voyeurism and his sexually motivated violent behaviour is exactly why there should never be mixed sex toilets. Women and girls are not comfort animals here for males to do with as they wish. He needs to be charged with sexually motivated assault and put on the sex offenders register. No excuses.

It genuinely has nothing to do with the type of toilet

Can you evidence that because that is not the experience of girls in our school? Can you explain how mixed sex toilets are better for girls? Ours have no mirrors and a shared hand wash long sink. The cubicles are totally flimsy and everything is covered in urine a lot of the time because the toilets are too low and the boys can’t aim. There is cctv which is also intrusive.

It would be bad enough if it was single sex but they now have frequently boisterous boys to contend with.

How is that better for girls?

Oh it didn't take long for the brainwashed apologists of gender ideology to say 'oh it's not the toilets', 'oh, but, they'll do it anyway' etc. FFS! Are you people this incredibly brainwashed and desperate to excuse what is going on that you will desperately flail about with whataboutery and 'they'll do it anyway'? FFS wake up to yourselves! It doesn't matter how much hard evidence is shown that unisex toilets are incredibly dangerous for girls, you'll make any excuse possible rather than admit your ideology is dangerous and flawed. A woman could be murdered by a man in a unisex toilet and the apologists will still find a way to say "well, it would have happened anyway..."

Unfucking believable that sticking to their ideology is more important than conceding they were wrong.

"Mixed sex toilets don't batter the living shit out of people, people do".

It’s not one boy. It’s boys forcing the toilet doors open to take pictures of the girls. This one injured the girl but it’s part of a general pattern of sexual harassment of the girls buy boys, enabled by unisex toilets.

’That boys motivation around sexual voyeurism and his sexually motivated violent behaviour is exactly why there should never be mixed sex toilets’

This ^

Exactly. These people are so programmed with their talking points they are unable to use logic and critical thinking, because they've invested so much in the ideology, they can't walk it back now. It's the sunk cost fallacy.

You can't prevent all violence and assault. But you CAN do everything possible to prevent it. And that includes single sex only spaces.