Do I have to accept that it is in fact me that’s the issue?

[MumsTheIssue]

DC is 8, Y4. This has been going on since Y2.

Perfect at school, no behaviour issues at all, no issues with academics, small but close group of friends. Quite quiet but will speak when spoken to and in the last few months growing in confidence. Eats fine.

ExH says they’re perfect there, quiet but easy going and will chat when wants to. Eats fine.

At home they’re the complete opposite:

• Violence aimed at me, repeatedly no matter what I do they keep going for up to 3 hours – if I ignore it carries on, if I try and tell them off it carries on, if I change rooms they follow me, if I put them into a different room they laugh and come back, if I talk to them they laugh and carry on

• Will not eat unless it's on a specific plate or bowl

• Does not respond to praise

• Does not respond to being given an instruction such as “Can you tidy up your toys please?” if I repeat it more firmly “Tidy up toys please” they still ignore me – if I take all their toys away they just shrug, if I stop screen time (they can earn 4 hours to be used at the weekend) they just shrug, if I stop them going to parties/activities etc. they just shrug and say they don’t care.

• I literally cannot punish them as they just don’t care. They won’t stay in timeout/a spot if they’re being violent towards me, I have tried returning them but they just laugh and think it’s a game

• Tells me they hate me regularly and they are going to live with their dad as soon as they’re old enough (they see him EOWend for 1 night only, never for school runs or appointments or anything else “boring”) but only when in a violent rage, when calm they say the love me a lot but never that they want to live with me, but they also don't say they want to live with ExH either

• School refuses – we’re regularly late for school but as soon as we’re there it’s like a lightbulb and they’re suddenly all sweetness and light

• Will not go to sleep – returning them to bed is a game again, they then fall asleep in class

What I’ve tried:

• A meeting with school for repeated lateness and falling asleep in class – they blamed me, told me to get DC up earlier (I can’t get them up any earlier, we’re already up at 6am, and they go to bed at 7.30pm) and said I needed to be “More persistent” with returning them to bed, even though DC told them it’s a fun game. They’ve told me they’ll refer it to Social Services if it keeps happening. I asked for a CAMHS referral to rule out SN and was told that DC doesn’t meet the criteria

• Took them to a private GP to rule out a medical cause – got brushed off and told it’s schools problem without them even checking DCs ears or any kind of examination - yes I demanded my money back, I was expecting at least a basic examination so I know that DC is healthy, I wasn’t demanding to the GP, I just expected a check of the ears, throat, chest (maybe nose), and maybe a basic urine test – my grandparents paid for this and where willing to pay for anything above that if the GP felt it necessary but I wasn’t even given any advice just told it’s behavioural and schools problem

• Spoke to someone for a private diagnosis of SN and told that I need schools backing for them to do so I can’t go down that route

• Took them to a private physio when they complained of pain (again my Grandparents paid for this) – who was very very good, but couldn’t find a physical issue and just advised me to get some properly fitted shoes for DC (which I did and hasn’t improved the behaviour at home)

I feel like I’m going mad. I’m looking into an EHCNA, but Sendiass have said if school are saying it’s a home problem and ExH is saying he has no issues with DC there then it will be an uphill battle that may not be won. I’m considering asking for a course of private play therapy from my grandparents, but I don’t want to keep taking money off them if I can help it.

Do I just accept I’m the issue? And if so how do I change? ExH will not parent full time so I have to. So it’s not an option for me to give in or give DC up though at times I have considered it

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Being fine at school and the NRPs but then coming home and just exploding. DC is always sorry but can’t seem to explain what happens when they’re in those moods. It’s not all bad, but I am so exhausted and feel like I can’t relax in case DC explodes.

You haven't answered my first post asking for more detail about what you are doing.

Your initial descriptions of what you are trying to do to control the behaviour don't make sense.

Can you explain how if you take everything off your child, they are happy to sit in a bedroom for hours/days with no TV, books or devices and this has no impact on them? They would be the first child in the history of the world who was happy to put themself into what is effectively solitary confinement without caring or being affected? How long do you normally follow through for?

Removal of items/privileges is usually the most effective punishment for kids 6-7 and older.

I agree. Ask the school to refer you.

I have a child with SEN and that's the only way l have secured help for him.

When exactly did this behaviour start ?

OP no I don't think you're the problem. You are bound to be a part of the problem in some way alongside everyone else, but dont let anyone make you carry the can for this situation. It's so easy to blame a single mum.

Neurodiversity does sound like a thing to explore. Keep pushing for assessments. Best of luck.

Same here OP but the biggest difference is the school believed us. We are a married couple. There's significant issue of prejudice against single parents (mums) when it comes to these issues. You can see it on this thread....

Look up the PDA Society. You don't need a diagnosis to start using helpful methods. There may be a local Facebook group for PDA too.

It’s not you. Sounds like your child may be autistic. You need to keep advocating for your child. They need help.

I have child who was diagnosed as autistic as a teenager after they developed severe mental health problems. Not one single educational professional ever suggested there might be any kind of issue. I thought the lack of going to sleep, not obeying instructions, always being late was just me being a rubbish mum.

He could either be masking or have emotional issues that he is unleashing on you. Get a referral to cahms and a referral to early help. Noone on mumsnet can answer this for you you need another agency to help you get to the root of it.

This sounds 100% the same as my experience when my children were young. I remember with my eldest a teacher telling me if they behave at school but misbehave at home that is a better reflection on how secure they feel at home than if it were the other way round. They’re perfect at your ex’s because they see that as ‘conditional’ love and yours as unconditional. My eldest would throw (children’s) chairs at me and would have massive tantrums. He was so bad I ended up having to homeschool him for a while to try and re-centre him and for us to nurture our bond. (It worked a dream). I can’t offer any real advice as I just muddled through as best I could and they’re grown now so don’t remember too much of it (but always picked my battles). The good news is they grew out of it (I can’t remember what age though). They were lovely through their teens and are lovely adults. No ND or anything though, just kids who were pushing boundaries with a single mum. For me it showed how important it really is to have a (loving) father coming home every night and I resented the fact their father did not prioritise family life over all his other ‘priorities’. (I know widows don’t have a choice though).

Can you explain how if you take everything off your child, they are happy to sit in a bedroom for hours/days with no TV, books or devices and this has no impact on them? They would be the first child in the history of the world who was happy to put themself into what is effectively solitary confinement without caring or being affected? How long do you normally follow through for?
Removal of items/privileges is usually the most effective punishment for kids 6-7 and older.

DH used to end up in stand off with one of our DC - taking more and more and just getting meltdowns or indifference - used to make difficult situations so much worse and yes they would sit in an empty room.

A PP linked to destressing activities
www.sunderlandaot.co.uk/asd-strategies/sensory

Same child letting them into back garden to be at back with all the trees seemed to massively help - and heading of stand offs - lots of exercise and avoiding certain food colourings - found that with food diary.

PP mentioned parenting like they are ND - as it won't hurt them if they turn out not to be - and I think that's what we did read around subject and took tips and keep ones that worked for that child.

Another one saying look into autism PDA profile. And please reassure yourself that the reason they are pushing back at you and lashing out is that's the only place they feel safe to do so. I know it doesn't feel like it, I've been through it, but it's a compliment to you that they feel safe enough to express their frustration in front of you.

How long would they sit for? My youngest tried this once, she lasted 2 days in an empty room (she kept her bed obvs) before she realised we weren't backing down and it never happened again, just the threat was enough.

Finally some common sense - SEN is the go-to answer for bad behaviour on MN. Some children have zilch SEN, they are just really badly behaved. OP that doesn't mean that you are 'to blame', as much as it feels like it. Your kid is lashing out at you as you are the one there. He sounds really angry (probably about the split, fracture in his life) and you are bearing the brunt. It cannot be easy. Consistency, consistency and more consistency. NO needs to be heard multiple times daily. I'd stop wasting your time and money on the medical route and go for a parenting specialist if you want to involve someone else, to help you out and give you tips to manage his bad behaviour at home.

Your child could have ASD or they could have another condition or they could have some pyschological and emotional issues. I would contact a psychologist and pay for some assessment sessions to explore what might be going on. Yes your child could be 'masking' but they also could have other issues. People on the internet can't possibly know your full situation nor can they know your child's background.

I don’t think punishments or consequences should be taking off things that child may need to regulate themselves, like an ipad.

Violent behaviour usually means that child is not coping. I did say before OP that you are probably a large part of it - but that is not to say you caused it - it’s to say that you are the one person who can really turn it around. I know it sucks a bit but change his environment (which is change how you react) and there is often a massive difference.

Definitely look into getting assessed for autism. Sounds very much like child is masking all day at school and it’s coming out at home. Very common.

Sorry you are going through this @MumsTheIssue. There can often be a huge disparity between behaviour at school and home due to a number of reasons.

You do not need school's backing to get private assessments. Do not rely on your local authority or SENDIAS for "approved" professionals. SENDIAS should be advising you on how and where to seek evidence to support an EHCNA if this is what you wish to pursue.

You do not need school's backing to request an EHCNA.

Your child does not need a formal diagnosis (e.g. of ASD/ADHD) to request an EHCNA.

Certain assessments will be done as part of the EHCNA process however I would strongly recommend you seek independent assessments if you can as, without school either seeing or acknowledging there are issues, you would benefit from having some evidence to support the legal test.

I've worked in the SEN sector for a number of years. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like any advice.

I would stop punishing the poor behaviour and start love bombing
Biting your tongue when they misbehave and ignoring it
It's awful - I get that but it's the only thing that's worked ish for us.
There is something not quite right and they are playing up in their safe space - so I'd look up gentle parenting, praising all and every behaviour that's positive, ignore the negative- walk away until they are calm and then see what they say

Try this for a month or more and see if you can learn anything from then about what they might be thinking or feeling,
I would also look at play therapy or space for them to share what they are feeling - they will be pre teens soon so I'd really focus on this before hormones

They might have SEN they might just be struggling with their parents separating and not being able to share how they feel - you've done a fab job as they know how to behave at school, with their dad - you're their punchbag and j think gentle parenting type thing might help xxx

i Do wonder about the effect only seeing their df one night in 14 has.
that’s not your fault as he won’t have them, but I don’t think it can be ignored.
it must be terribly stressful to have to go once a fortnight and be on best behaviour. They have probably already picked up on the rejection.

School are being incredibly useless for you. It is lazy and neglectful on their part to pass the blame onto you. I would also question why any credence is being given to your ex dh opinion when he has dc so little.

i also agree with accessing the school nurse and the gp.

Sounds very autistic

Yeah, school thought is was all of a parenting problem with one of mine. Autism assessor was not impressed they couldn't see the bloody obvious.

Pop bottle effect. You are their safe place. You get the meltdowns. It's not you. It's school. Not necessarily all school's fault. Schools are sensory nightmares even if putting lots of adaptions in place.

Look up Yvonne Newbold. Newbold Hope.

Masking and camouflaging does happen. Even with autistic adults. It's knackering.

Try:
Feed kid on the school yard.(mine needed sugar)
Rocking in one plane. (Calming)
Occupational therapy calming activities everyday. (Search engine)
Weighted blankets,
Mine likes foot massages.
Patting and shushing to sleep.
Limited interaction immediately after school.
Removing sensory stimulation after school. (We all have a room each and chill)
Heavy work. (Mine walks home with all his school books)

could you have a reward chart based around an interest? eg bed on time for 1 week means a trip out somewhere fun?
I guess its worth trying a more positive approach. When my kid was small i had real problems getting them to walk home from school. A friend suggested making it more fun than nagging! so I would race to lampposts, time to another sign etc. They ended up loving it!

Oh love I've only read your OP.

This is my son, he's now got an autism diagnosis. Early days yet but even just the diagnosis has been so helpful - I'm not an awful parent.

Play therapist who specialises in asd. Do a few sessions and get their opinion. They may have some home suggestions.
Friend put cameras in her house as no one believed her. School and gp were amazed at childs behaviours as masked so well everywhere else

I remember the good old days when my autistic DD was young and I took her things out of her room just as @ColonelDax suggests. She entertained herself by smearing excretment over her bedroom wall and drawing pictures in it. Any other pearls of wisdom to share?

Bet you are a bloody good one.

Congratulations on getting a diagnosis. Well done!

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry, but yes it sounds exactly like my gs. His mum went through hell and everyone ('professionals') kept telling her it was 'her parenting skills' because she managed to get him to school. Somehow she managed to save up enough to get him seen privately (don't know if she needed a referral, I think it was purely her own doing) and he is thoroughly and definitely on the ASD list. The school etc will now be able to put more help in place for them both. tbh, the school was starting to see it as he was finding it harder to mask to the level he had done (secondary). It has given them both an immense sense of relief to finally have it recognised! Keep fighting, it sounds like you both need help x