Do I have to accept that it is in fact me that’s the issue?

[MumsTheIssue]

DC is 8, Y4. This has been going on since Y2.

Perfect at school, no behaviour issues at all, no issues with academics, small but close group of friends. Quite quiet but will speak when spoken to and in the last few months growing in confidence. Eats fine.

ExH says they’re perfect there, quiet but easy going and will chat when wants to. Eats fine.

At home they’re the complete opposite:

• Violence aimed at me, repeatedly no matter what I do they keep going for up to 3 hours – if I ignore it carries on, if I try and tell them off it carries on, if I change rooms they follow me, if I put them into a different room they laugh and come back, if I talk to them they laugh and carry on

• Will not eat unless it's on a specific plate or bowl

• Does not respond to praise

• Does not respond to being given an instruction such as “Can you tidy up your toys please?” if I repeat it more firmly “Tidy up toys please” they still ignore me – if I take all their toys away they just shrug, if I stop screen time (they can earn 4 hours to be used at the weekend) they just shrug, if I stop them going to parties/activities etc. they just shrug and say they don’t care.

• I literally cannot punish them as they just don’t care. They won’t stay in timeout/a spot if they’re being violent towards me, I have tried returning them but they just laugh and think it’s a game

• Tells me they hate me regularly and they are going to live with their dad as soon as they’re old enough (they see him EOWend for 1 night only, never for school runs or appointments or anything else “boring”) but only when in a violent rage, when calm they say the love me a lot but never that they want to live with me, but they also don't say they want to live with ExH either

• School refuses – we’re regularly late for school but as soon as we’re there it’s like a lightbulb and they’re suddenly all sweetness and light

• Will not go to sleep – returning them to bed is a game again, they then fall asleep in class

What I’ve tried:

• A meeting with school for repeated lateness and falling asleep in class – they blamed me, told me to get DC up earlier (I can’t get them up any earlier, we’re already up at 6am, and they go to bed at 7.30pm) and said I needed to be “More persistent” with returning them to bed, even though DC told them it’s a fun game. They’ve told me they’ll refer it to Social Services if it keeps happening. I asked for a CAMHS referral to rule out SN and was told that DC doesn’t meet the criteria

• Took them to a private GP to rule out a medical cause – got brushed off and told it’s schools problem without them even checking DCs ears or any kind of examination - yes I demanded my money back, I was expecting at least a basic examination so I know that DC is healthy, I wasn’t demanding to the GP, I just expected a check of the ears, throat, chest (maybe nose), and maybe a basic urine test – my grandparents paid for this and where willing to pay for anything above that if the GP felt it necessary but I wasn’t even given any advice just told it’s behavioural and schools problem

• Spoke to someone for a private diagnosis of SN and told that I need schools backing for them to do so I can’t go down that route

• Took them to a private physio when they complained of pain (again my Grandparents paid for this) – who was very very good, but couldn’t find a physical issue and just advised me to get some properly fitted shoes for DC (which I did and hasn’t improved the behaviour at home)

I feel like I’m going mad. I’m looking into an EHCNA, but Sendiass have said if school are saying it’s a home problem and ExH is saying he has no issues with DC there then it will be an uphill battle that may not be won. I’m considering asking for a course of private play therapy from my grandparents, but I don’t want to keep taking money off them if I can help it.

Do I just accept I’m the issue? And if so how do I change? ExH will not parent full time so I have to. So it’s not an option for me to give in or give DC up though at times I have considered it

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Being fine at school and the NRPs but then coming home and just exploding. DC is always sorry but can’t seem to explain what happens when they’re in those moods. It’s not all bad, but I am so exhausted and feel like I can’t relax in case DC explodes.

My DH has ASD and is a professor of nuclear chemistry. He didn't do too badly academically.

OP genuine question, have you ever had any control over your childs behaviour or has it always been this way?

Was there a time when they did as they were told and when did it stop? I ask because before you go down the road of getting diagnosed, it might be worth honestly evaluating your parenting techniques?

Your descriptions of discipline don't seem to be very joined up, you stated that they are violent and you can't even walk away, why are you walking away and not stopping this the instant it starts?! They are 8 not 18.

You stated that taking things off them has no effect. How can that possibly be true? I have never met a child in my life who is happy to sit in a quiet bedroom with not tv, books or devices of any kind for longer than a few hours without losing it. How long are you carrying out these punishments for?

"you stated that they are violent and you can't even walk away, why are you walking away and not stopping this the instant it starts?! They are 8 not 18."

Ha ha. I assume you've never had a wound up autistic child in meltdown hitting and harming you, trashing the joint. You walk away they follow. I have to barricade myself in my room before.

They aren't a pet poodle. They can't be trained.

@ColonelDax

Tell me you've never had to deal with an autistic child without telling me you've never had to deal with an autistic child.

Why have you diagnosed the OPs child as autistic on the basis of one post?

I have raised three children to adulthood and have been on the receiving end of every type of naughty behaviour you can imagine at least once. Usually once and once only to be fair.

I reiterate, they are 8.

Some people are saying “son” but the original post hid the gender. I don’t know if the op has said the gender yet but this sounds like an autistic girl to me.
I’m no expert but have some female friends with adult asd diagnoses. One recommended I read fern bradys book. It was enlightening and sad and funny…. Maybe have a read? She is very very intelligent but has violent meltdowns due to her asd.

I had the exact same issues OP. Ex husband said DC was fine at his, nothing wrong, implied it was totally in my head. Her previous school didn't want to know, GP refused to do anything without the schools involvement.
Funnily enough, as adamant ExH was she was fine at his he would drop things she did at his into casual conversation that were SO blatantly ADHD traits. He just didn't want to acknowledge it.
By absolute chance we had to move to another area and therefore had to move her to another school. It took them less than 3 days when she first started to recognise traits of ADHD and Autism and actually came to me before I had the chance to approach them about it.

It's a drastic measure but can you move schools (I totally get that this is highly unlikely)? I would also look into other private providers as they don't usually care about GP/School referrals. Shop around and see if you can find somewhere that will help your child.

We had this. As Ds was home schooled he couldn’t get a diagnosis and when in school they just said wait and see then said it wasn’t worth it and to start the process again in the next school.

DS is in his 20s and is still awaiting an adhd diagnosis. His assessment was supposed to be last year but every time we get to the date and turn up there is always a reason it has been pushed back. He was diagnosed at 17 at college with dyslexia and dysgraphia. Too late to make any difference academically

When did this behaviour start?

Sorry I was one of the posters who said son. It of course could be a DD because girls definitely mask more than boys from my experience.

This is commonly referred to as the coke bottle effect, other pphave mentioned the whys of the behaviour.
You do not need to have schools backing for any private assessments, look around for a good well recommended Educational Psychologist for a home visit.
If you feel the need for " evidence " to help you then I would buy some small in house cameras to record daily life at home.
Or you could discuss a short term living situation with your ex if you have a good enough relationship, he may be agreeable if you have a time limit for 3/4 weeks.

You could also make a parental request for an EHCP from the LA, again, tou do not need the backing of the school for this at all despite what the LA or School say.

IPESA can help with the application process.

*IPSEA sorry.

Reading your OP it strikes me that there's a lot of focus from you to be gained from acting out. I'll be open and say I did a parenting course when mine were little. We were taught 10 positives for every 1 negative. So we had to learn to make the conscious effort to engage with our dc positively every moment we caught positive behaviour/action. And not just around tasks but just day-to-day living (like they colour a picture or do a dance). It meant all the emphasis flipped from patrolling negatives to patrolling positives & truly engaging. It needed lots of effort on the parents part but it's worth it.

I think your daughter is masking. Autistic girls can put on a good act to fit in socially for a period of time. The frustration and stress then explodes where they feel safest.

My DD is 14 and has been masking too but it's all become too much for her now. The pressure of year 10 Secondary School has caused an emotional burnout. There's no more masking and very little school right now.

Your school should understand masking better. CAMHs will understand but the help they provide is pretty non existent to be honest. Perhaps you could approach the National Autistic Society for advice.

OP - this is called masking. My 8 year old is immaculately behaved at school - absolute insane meltdowns at home. Sounds very very like your child.

Please go to your GP _ and also if you can afford it look at private diagnosis - if you want to DM me I'll tell you the organisation we used.

School refuses – we’re regularly late for school but as soon as we’re there it’s like a lightbulb and they’re suddenly all sweetness and light

Do regular count downs and pre warning help ie 20 minutes to leaving, 10, 5, 3 ? Those and lot of time were only things that got one of mine into school.

Do they sleep if you stay in the room - and repeat going to sleep now if they talk? Getting cold before bed supposed to induce sleep - so baths. Some kids are just night owls and it's an ongoing nightmare to get them to sleep.

It does sound like there is something and it is so hard when school block minimise or cause you to doubt.

A situation in school left DD1 super stressed - as it went on she started exploding at home - school refused to consider the easy fix and then started to blame me - 4 years she'd coped and we'd managed to find ways to help at home - and she couldn't with additional stresses - in end she had a melt down in school which shocked them - made easy fix all calmed down though she was stressed rest of school year - and they went back to denying there were any issues with her.

I'd look at masking and keep trying to get diagnosed.

What about a family therapist? That’s what we would call it in the US - not sure if it as common / named the same thing here. Basically a psychologist (so focused on family dynamics and behavioural interventions rather than medication) to provide a fresh perspective and help you unpick what is going on. We did this when I was younger, and therapist would meet with me for a bit, mother for a bit, and then wrap up together.

they might ultimately refer your DC to a psychiatrist or other SEN service if they feel that’s the issue (or a contributing factor), but they also might be able to help you with behavioural management strategies and provide DC with a safe space to discuss how they are feeling / help them understand their own behaviour.

maybe your child does have a medical issue, but it could also be a response to trauma or issues elsewhere in his life- you bear the brunt of an ugly emotional response because you are ‘safe’.

sounds so tough - hope you find someone who can help.

I agree with Locked.

Have you asked why your exh is so adamant that there is nothing wrong. (And making out it is all you)
How. Would he know if he only has Dc 1 night every couple of weeks.

You couldn’t make up something where you have to go away for a couple of weeks so he has to have dc and then see if when the mask slips that problems are there

How is dc if they don’t go to school or anywhere they could mask their behaviour and you are both just pottering about at home where you give lots of praise and attention

Dd even now as an adult, the first 48 hours after she has been away with work or staying at her bf’s place are horrendous.
But then she calms down and it all goes back to being lovely and calm till she goes out again.

I wouldn’t take any notice of the school saying everything is fine because if they are threatening SS then obviously things aren’t fine,

Schools never want to admit that something might be wrong as it then costs them money. They just deny deny deny then say to tackle it in Senior school because it isn’t worth starting something because dc is leaving soon.

You should post this in SN Chat.
As a mum of an autistic child and who masks his difficulties and true nature everywhere except home, your post rings alarm bells.

It’s 100% appropriate to get school involved - because it might be school that’s causing them to have 3 hour melt downs at home.
I imagine because they don’t live with ex dh, they also mask in front of him…,or he lets them do stuff with no boundaries so they feel comfortable enough.

I would ask for an educational psych assessment ……at home. They can and should do that.

I know people on mn say ‘oh everyone always reverts to SEND as being the issue with so many posts’ but here, it seems quite obvious that it could be a possibility.

Agree with this. I was diagnosed with textbook inattentive ADHD as an adult, but I went all the way through school without so much as a detention and got a degree from Oxbridge without being diagnosed.

I'm a bit horrified that poor academic performance is seen as a key marker? Not surprised my ADHD was missed at school....

You should post this in SN Chat.

I agree, the patronising posts about your parenting are not helpful, particularly the shite from the pp who has been on a parenting course and thinks she knows it all

I’m the mother of two autistic sons but I don’t think your child ‘just’ has autism. My eldest DS really doesn’t like me and when he lived with me it was like being in an abusive relationship….and I know it’s a nightmare because you’re the adult and everyone blames you. If it was a partner you’d run for the hills but if it’s your child, you’re judged and it’s so difficult not to believe that it’s your fault. I believe my son has ADHD, Asperger’s but also a touch of narcissism. I don’t even know if that’s possible but his father is a mid-range narcissist and I’m autistic. Eventually we decided it was best for him to live with his dad and now he hates him too! Narcissism can’t really be diagnosed in children and there’s such a stigma that it probably shouldn’t be but people don’t become narcissists at the age of 18.

Younger DS is a very typical aspie and he’s kind and hates causing upset. Your child doesn’t sound like they’re lashing out but rather systematically abusing you. Younger DS had meltdowns for a while when he hated school but they were not directed at anyone.

I’d also question the extreme masking. None of us has been capable of masking. The point is that autistics have terrible social skills …. Someone masking has excellent social skills or how would they be able to mask?

We had a Autism Assessment for DD and didn’t have school or GP involved because both were useless! Just contact a private Child Clinical Psychologist and arrange a private assessment. We were told by the GP (who frankly didn’t want to be involved at all) that we’d have a 2 year wait for CAHMS and that was pre-Covid.