Do I have to accept that it is in fact me that’s the issue?

[MumsTheIssue]

DC is 8, Y4. This has been going on since Y2.

Perfect at school, no behaviour issues at all, no issues with academics, small but close group of friends. Quite quiet but will speak when spoken to and in the last few months growing in confidence. Eats fine.

ExH says they’re perfect there, quiet but easy going and will chat when wants to. Eats fine.

At home they’re the complete opposite:

• Violence aimed at me, repeatedly no matter what I do they keep going for up to 3 hours – if I ignore it carries on, if I try and tell them off it carries on, if I change rooms they follow me, if I put them into a different room they laugh and come back, if I talk to them they laugh and carry on

• Will not eat unless it's on a specific plate or bowl

• Does not respond to praise

• Does not respond to being given an instruction such as “Can you tidy up your toys please?” if I repeat it more firmly “Tidy up toys please” they still ignore me – if I take all their toys away they just shrug, if I stop screen time (they can earn 4 hours to be used at the weekend) they just shrug, if I stop them going to parties/activities etc. they just shrug and say they don’t care.

• I literally cannot punish them as they just don’t care. They won’t stay in timeout/a spot if they’re being violent towards me, I have tried returning them but they just laugh and think it’s a game

• Tells me they hate me regularly and they are going to live with their dad as soon as they’re old enough (they see him EOWend for 1 night only, never for school runs or appointments or anything else “boring”) but only when in a violent rage, when calm they say the love me a lot but never that they want to live with me, but they also don't say they want to live with ExH either

• School refuses – we’re regularly late for school but as soon as we’re there it’s like a lightbulb and they’re suddenly all sweetness and light

• Will not go to sleep – returning them to bed is a game again, they then fall asleep in class

What I’ve tried:

• A meeting with school for repeated lateness and falling asleep in class – they blamed me, told me to get DC up earlier (I can’t get them up any earlier, we’re already up at 6am, and they go to bed at 7.30pm) and said I needed to be “More persistent” with returning them to bed, even though DC told them it’s a fun game. They’ve told me they’ll refer it to Social Services if it keeps happening. I asked for a CAMHS referral to rule out SN and was told that DC doesn’t meet the criteria

• Took them to a private GP to rule out a medical cause – got brushed off and told it’s schools problem without them even checking DCs ears or any kind of examination - yes I demanded my money back, I was expecting at least a basic examination so I know that DC is healthy, I wasn’t demanding to the GP, I just expected a check of the ears, throat, chest (maybe nose), and maybe a basic urine test – my grandparents paid for this and where willing to pay for anything above that if the GP felt it necessary but I wasn’t even given any advice just told it’s behavioural and schools problem

• Spoke to someone for a private diagnosis of SN and told that I need schools backing for them to do so I can’t go down that route

• Took them to a private physio when they complained of pain (again my Grandparents paid for this) – who was very very good, but couldn’t find a physical issue and just advised me to get some properly fitted shoes for DC (which I did and hasn’t improved the behaviour at home)

I feel like I’m going mad. I’m looking into an EHCNA, but Sendiass have said if school are saying it’s a home problem and ExH is saying he has no issues with DC there then it will be an uphill battle that may not be won. I’m considering asking for a course of private play therapy from my grandparents, but I don’t want to keep taking money off them if I can help it.

Do I just accept I’m the issue? And if so how do I change? ExH will not parent full time so I have to. So it’s not an option for me to give in or give DC up though at times I have considered it

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Being fine at school and the NRPs but then coming home and just exploding. DC is always sorry but can’t seem to explain what happens when they’re in those moods. It’s not all bad, but I am so exhausted and feel like I can’t relax in case DC explodes.

DC doesn't respond to praise

This is incredibly common in children with PDA as direct praise is effectively a demand.

I said ‘loving’ father maybe you missed that bit? I put ‘perfect’ in quotes to show I mean, as I’d already used the word loving, a healthy set up. 🙄 dearie me.

💐 for you.
I have no practical advise ,you are absolutely a wonderful mum and you are absolutely NOT the problem.
Your dc obviously loves you very much as you do them.
Good luck in the future 💐

I don't know whether your child is autistic or not. I do have an autistic child, but they did not present with any violence at all. I do work in a school with autistic DC your child's age.

I would definitely keep a diary - the behaviour and what happened before and what happened after. I would also video it - you can then show that to the GP/school SENCO as evidence of what you are dealing with at home. See if you can self refer to CAMHS or privately.

Equally there also may be other mental health factors at play, possibly trauma. You don't mention previous background, what DC may have witnessed when ex-H lived at home, your own mental health, how the relationship between yourself and ex-H can also impact. At DCs diagnosis we talked about ll this, parenting style, milestones reached - even what the birth was like!

It could even be trauma and mental health AND autism, rather than either/or.

The only way to get to the bottom of it is to record it and then take that evidence and ask for help. In the meantime I would look up about parenting an autistic child and try some approaches. https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour

They do it because they can push their luck with some, but not others not because they are autistic.
It’s actually very common for autistic children to unmask at home. So yes, some autistic children do it because they’re autistic.

How is she not enforcing the rules if she does things like takes toys away?

True it just makes behaviour worse. Reward for good behaviour is best not punishment. I've seen this work with children described as feral.

Maybe you can try giving them more space, especially when they’ve just returned from their dad’s or school?

The bits about the unwelcome comments on their artwork, trying to play alongside them on the floor when they want to be left alone, and then sitting in the background talking at them instead make it sound like you might be frequently annoying them. Especially if DC has recently returned from a stressful environment and wants to decompress in peace (like so many of us do after work!) you may be setting off an already short fuse on a young child who isn’t mature enough to say “I need some alone time right now.”

Exaggerate?

You said that everything was taken out other than her bed
YOU said that @ColonelDax

You described it as “effectively solitary confinement. “. YOU @ColonelDax

and YOU @ColonelDax said your deprived her if any books for two days and would have whipped one away from her if she was caught with one

so where have I exaggerated?

and back to my question… would you want your dd to do this to your gd?

Do you of think it’s telling @ColonelDax thatyph very clearly remember the punishment

but have no recollection of the offence that your 9 year old actually did to warrant such a punishment

I answered you in the quoted response. Of course I'd be happy for her to.

You are oddly fixated on me and the way I brought up my kids. 🙄

Why? Telling of what?

Because I've asked her twice now how long she does it for and if she is consistent.

No response which makes me think she caves easily and her child pushes their luck because they know they can outlast their mother and if they make it difficult enough she will just give up. That's far more likely to be a big factor in this than anything else

Hi again OP, I didn't have time for a long post yesterday but I wanted to second (third) the recommendation of the book The Explosive Child and also another one, which I found really helpful, is 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child (Jeffrey Bernstein). They are both very practical and supportive of parents.

A technique that might help you is called NVR (non violent resistance). We saw a guy called Jack at New Leaf NVR. He was way more helpful (and less expensive) than the many healthcare professionals of various types (although it has been very helpful to have a diagnosis so we know what we're dealing with, can access appropriate support etc). Buy there are other practitioners - Yvonne Newbold is another well known one.

I haven't tried pm on here since switching to the app, but somewhere I have a report from the University of Durham about violence of children to parents (well, mums). I participated in the study. Pm me if you want me to look out a copy. There is a significant taboo on talking about it, but it's more common than people think. You are not alone.

I forgot something else.

Sleep problems are very common with ADHD. There's a report by one of the ADHD charities called 'Sleep Seekers' with statistics. I found it really helpful to know that 2-4 hours to fall asleep was not average (unless you have ADHD).

We've used melatonin, which has changed our lives. It was prescribed by the paediatrician we saw privately and our GP took the prescription on.

Telling that the offence was trivial enough to forget

but many years later you very much remember the punishment

and I guess your daughter will be the same

You are absolutely correct @ColonelDax

i am fixated (although actually more disturbed) by your punishment of stripping your 9 year old’s bedroom of everything bar a bed and forbidding her from even reading. For 2 days until she saw sense and apologised

she didn’t mean that apology. She was desperate for her books back and wanted her toys and teddies back

I already said, she got it for not doing as she was told and being rude. That's not trivial and if you think it is then I dread to think how your children behave.

I know she didn't. I'm curious why you think that matters?

She learned that if you do bad things and break the rules, you receive consequences. As soon as she apologised and did as she was told she got all her books and TV back, which she knew was the case right from the start (she never got teddies removed and she didn't really have toys at 9)

The apology was just for behaviour modeling so she knows what she should feel in future. As I said before, it worked and we never had to get to that stage again.

The problem that's been highlighted here is that any threats or escalation you make have to be followed through as you're essentially just creating an epic battle of wills with your child. If your kid is stubborn enough then it kindof has to end with solitary confinement in an empty bedroom and a kid who eventually submisses and grows up anxious/resentful in the process which is why I don't personally like it as a discipline method. You can be firm be instill fair consequences and make the focus more on meeting the child's needs than your own needs. This is important to remember whatever conditions the child does/doesn't have

So your daughter was never ever rude again? Never. That harsh punishment went so deep she was NEVER rude again to you

and she didn't really have toys at 9)
🤔

really? And this was pre computer games.

So you 9 year old used to do what? Just read? And you took that away from her

@ColonelDax

may I ask what your current situation is? All adult children moved out, correct? Do you have a partner? Work?

the reason I ask is you seem… not sure how to delicately word, so I won’t

It was 2013?

Why would they grow up anxious or resentful? None of mine have.