Do I have to accept that it is in fact me that’s the issue?

[MumsTheIssue]

DC is 8, Y4. This has been going on since Y2.

Perfect at school, no behaviour issues at all, no issues with academics, small but close group of friends. Quite quiet but will speak when spoken to and in the last few months growing in confidence. Eats fine.

ExH says they’re perfect there, quiet but easy going and will chat when wants to. Eats fine.

At home they’re the complete opposite:

• Violence aimed at me, repeatedly no matter what I do they keep going for up to 3 hours – if I ignore it carries on, if I try and tell them off it carries on, if I change rooms they follow me, if I put them into a different room they laugh and come back, if I talk to them they laugh and carry on

• Will not eat unless it's on a specific plate or bowl

• Does not respond to praise

• Does not respond to being given an instruction such as “Can you tidy up your toys please?” if I repeat it more firmly “Tidy up toys please” they still ignore me – if I take all their toys away they just shrug, if I stop screen time (they can earn 4 hours to be used at the weekend) they just shrug, if I stop them going to parties/activities etc. they just shrug and say they don’t care.

• I literally cannot punish them as they just don’t care. They won’t stay in timeout/a spot if they’re being violent towards me, I have tried returning them but they just laugh and think it’s a game

• Tells me they hate me regularly and they are going to live with their dad as soon as they’re old enough (they see him EOWend for 1 night only, never for school runs or appointments or anything else “boring”) but only when in a violent rage, when calm they say the love me a lot but never that they want to live with me, but they also don't say they want to live with ExH either

• School refuses – we’re regularly late for school but as soon as we’re there it’s like a lightbulb and they’re suddenly all sweetness and light

• Will not go to sleep – returning them to bed is a game again, they then fall asleep in class

What I’ve tried:

• A meeting with school for repeated lateness and falling asleep in class – they blamed me, told me to get DC up earlier (I can’t get them up any earlier, we’re already up at 6am, and they go to bed at 7.30pm) and said I needed to be “More persistent” with returning them to bed, even though DC told them it’s a fun game. They’ve told me they’ll refer it to Social Services if it keeps happening. I asked for a CAMHS referral to rule out SN and was told that DC doesn’t meet the criteria

• Took them to a private GP to rule out a medical cause – got brushed off and told it’s schools problem without them even checking DCs ears or any kind of examination - yes I demanded my money back, I was expecting at least a basic examination so I know that DC is healthy, I wasn’t demanding to the GP, I just expected a check of the ears, throat, chest (maybe nose), and maybe a basic urine test – my grandparents paid for this and where willing to pay for anything above that if the GP felt it necessary but I wasn’t even given any advice just told it’s behavioural and schools problem

• Spoke to someone for a private diagnosis of SN and told that I need schools backing for them to do so I can’t go down that route

• Took them to a private physio when they complained of pain (again my Grandparents paid for this) – who was very very good, but couldn’t find a physical issue and just advised me to get some properly fitted shoes for DC (which I did and hasn’t improved the behaviour at home)

I feel like I’m going mad. I’m looking into an EHCNA, but Sendiass have said if school are saying it’s a home problem and ExH is saying he has no issues with DC there then it will be an uphill battle that may not be won. I’m considering asking for a course of private play therapy from my grandparents, but I don’t want to keep taking money off them if I can help it.

Do I just accept I’m the issue? And if so how do I change? ExH will not parent full time so I have to. So it’s not an option for me to give in or give DC up though at times I have considered it

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Being fine at school and the NRPs but then coming home and just exploding. DC is always sorry but can’t seem to explain what happens when they’re in those moods. It’s not all bad, but I am so exhausted and feel like I can’t relax in case DC explodes.

Yes, I'm curious about this too.

There's been a divorce. You are doing more than your fair share of parenting and by all accounts finding it challenging. You are frustrated that repeated efforts to 'discipline' have been unsuccessful. Your son says he hates you and wants to live with dad. School are emphatic that the problem is your parenting.

I think you need to focus on improving your relationship with your son and let go of trying to control him for now. Family therapy might help.

I'd be very happy if any of my children followed through on their word with love but also firmness and didn't back down so their children grow up well behaved.

Make any judgement you like, I brought my children up firmly but fairly and followed through on my word. They might even have got the odd smacked bottom or two gasp. Call social services immediately. 😂

All three of them are now successful, well balanced and popular, in healthy relationships and we all see each other regularly at their request, not mine.

No doubt they will deny it on here, but i'd bet my mortgage that the vast majority of those criticising me and my parenting methods because they are so much better than me, can't say the same. 🙄

An estimated 1 in 57 British school children are autistic. Hardly the clopping of unicorn hooves is it?

Why do you assume we didn't also talk about what they had done wrong?

You can still explain, while also applying appropriate punishment to ensure your children don't do it again.

No doubt they will deny it on here, but i'd bet my mortgage that the vast majority of those criticising me and my parenting methods because they are so much better than me, can't say the same. 🙄

And here we go with the unfounded prejudices about autism again.

Hello, really feel your pain. Firstly please don’t blame yourself! As a pp said you are their safe space and that’s why you get the rough end of their behaviour. Of course they are good at their dads. Only they for short periods and only eow. This is my son, I am told how polite and respectful he is, what a lovely boy. People think I make it up when I say he is not like this at home. Of course we see moments of it. Holding it together at school is called masking. Which then means that not only do you get the normal upsets but double that because it’s exhausting for children to spend all day masking their true nature. I say this as someone that works in a primary and has my own son who is neurodiverse. It is more common than you’d think. Equally being neurodiverse doesn’t mean extreme behaviour all the time. Wishing you all the best. 💖

You haven't mentioned the sex of your child, but Autistic Girls Network may or may not be relevant.

Also
Nurturing Your Autistic Young Person: A Parent’s Handbook to Supporting Newly Diagnosed Teens and Pre-Teens amzn.eu/d/abuwx63

My DD isn't diagnosed, she's 15 and I'm just getting a private diagnosis as CAMHS waitlist is too long. I realised I'd been adapting to her needs for years without ever adding up all the things I did, just thought she was very shy, a bit quirky, fussy with food, obsessed with certain things.

SENco were not originally on board but having spent time with her this week, they've agreed she is struggling and it's more than "just anxiety". That's taken 3 months and me being a squeaky wheel. Be prepared for lots of pushback OP, but you know your child best.

You could try Early Help - it's a council service and you can self refer. Mixed reviews from parents, but we're on our second meeting and for me it's been helpful to have a neutral party involved.

You can still explain, while also applying appropriate punishment to ensure your children don't do it again.

It is not appropriate punishment in many cases though. You will not see this because of your fixed views.

Have you considered you could be autistic?

From a totally lay perspective, if you have someone - anyone - a child or an adult - acting out and behaving badly with one person but not with others it is usually because on some level they need a place of release and know they can get away with it with that person who won't reject them.

It's like men who have a hard day at work an instead of shouting at their boss abusively which would equal sacking come home and shout at their wife and kids.

Two thing then an underlying issue generating anger and a feeling of security they can get away with it with you because you won't disclipine or stop it at a level others will.

What isn't appropriate?

Some children hold it all in when at school and anywhere else. But then let it all out in they're own home. Usually towards the person they love the most. It's like shaking a bottle of fizzy pop all day and not being able to take the top off until they get home. When they do it all comes out at once.

Removing items from a child who is acting out at home due to the bottle of coke effect.

It escalates the bad behaviour and doesn't work and goes against advice of HCP who understand childhood behaviour.

Many of us have explained this to you but you have fixed views so won't see another viewpoint.

Which is why I have asked if you have considered if you could be autistic. Fixed views and refusing to see other perspectives are autistic traits.

Reading your posts again, you mentioned "tidy your toys" doesn't do anything. It has taken me so much reading about autism to understand that my daughter needs really clear instructions and one at a time. She simply can't process anything else. She's bright as a button but needs clear, unambiguous language.

So instead of "tidy your toys", what happens if you ask "please pick up all the lego* from the floor and put it in this box"?

*insert toy of choice

If school think no issue then difficult to get a nhs referral.

Contacting school nurse or social services about e.g. parenting courses might be a good first step

I have a 12yo master-masker DS with ASD. Referred at 7 after a series of epic meltdowns, the 4 hour one triggered by me asking if he'd changed his reading book as he came out of school one Friday.

School never recognised ASD even after the diagnosis on NHS headed paper.

I went to the GP with a mindmap of my concerns and all the traits I could think of. Investigating neurodivergence is slow and doesn't come with instant answers, but just being open to the possibility and using more ND friendly approaches can make a positive difference.

DS needs notice, contingency plans and time to defuse and process between transitions. When I pick him up from school, I let him take the lead on initiating conversation and turn the radio off. We have a un-wind in bed time, a later lights- off time, but no pressure to sleep. Someone has to have less than average sleep (he napped until starting school; he'd crash out in the book corner because he was exhausted with the sensory input).

It's never really occurred to me before but for children who mask, it must be harder to visit Disney Dads as it's less time to zone out and recharge in their safe space, and increases their fizzy bottle release when they get back to the security of their mum and main home.

If school think no issue then difficult to get a nhs referral.

In most areas you don't need school referral for autism diagnostic services.

You can be referred by a GP.

Obviously it helps if school are on board but many times they are not because it involves additional work for them. Children who mask in school would never be diagnosed if schools always had to be part of the referral process.

I'm just curious, what in the very brief notes OP has given do you think are red flags? It takes specialists hours to diagnose ASD so what makes you so confident? I disagree btw. I think the description is far more in keeping with a child who's hurting emotionally. I think whether the child has autistic traits or not it would be far more in their interest to explore this

Would you urge your daughter to deprive your 9 year old grand daughter of every single one of her belongings so only a bed remains, and refuse to allow her to read. In fact take a book from her if she caught reading @ColonelDax?

But that's only true if the OPs child is actually autistic, which still isn't established and their behaviour can just as easily be explained in other, non-medicalised ways.

Yet you and others seem to be unable to accept that they are anything but 'obviously autistic'.

Some might also call that a fixed viewpoint...

All of the bullet points in the first post are common with children with autism who mask in school.

I am not the only poster who has said this. Most have.

Why are you so sure it is not autism. What qualifications in child behaviour or autism diagnosis do you hold?

Obviously we might all be wrong but the only way to tell is if the OP pushes for diagnosis. Normally it's advised to treat as though the child could be while waiting for the diagnosis, in other words, not punishing the child for their struggles but trying to, at the very least, work out what they are.

@User4891 an assessment would consider all possible explanations. And I think you are confusing grounds for referral with criteria for a diagnosis.

Please don't exaggerate. She lost access to her books and her TV.

And of course I would. Like I said, she could have had them back at any time. It was entirely self imposed until she did as she was told and apologised.

If the child is actually autistic they are autistic EVEN before the diagnosis.

What you are advising is putting both the child and the mother at risk of escalation and mental health difficulties and would not be advised by a HCP.

I do have fixed views on this because I made mistakes before my DC's diagnosis which caused him harm because I felt that I could parent away his difficulties. I deeply regret it because it damaged his mental health and feel strongly that people like the OP receive correct advise which will not damage them and their child.

OP, please seek expert advice.

Also the Explosive Child as recommended above is worth reading. It isn't confined to autistic children by any means but it gives good ideas about dealing with difficult behaviour of the type you are describing.

I haven't RTFT but that sounds very, very similar to my DC with ASD and PDA traits. The masking (which is beginning to fail them) at school and at their father's are very typical. You are the safe place so that's where they can melt down.

You don't need school's support to access assessment but if you tell them you suspect ASD they are obliged to put measures in place while you are waiting for assessment. Take a look at the PDA society they have some amazing resources and are incredibly helpful.

If it helps, our situation was at it's absolute worst at around 8 years old. A diagnosis and new approaches (and in our case a new and supportive school) changed everything.