AIBU to not accept childs new name

[PeskyPenguin]

My eldest, 13 year old girl has a longish girls name with lots of options for shortening and nicknames.

They told me yesterday that they are non binary and would like to be referred to as they them. Whatever, ok.

Then they tell me that they want to change their name, to another long girls name.

I don't get it. Surely the point of changing a name is to be less feminine?

Their response is "it's just a name I like more"

Well tough? Not everyone likes their name, but that is your name??

They went to a youth group night. And I said to the the leader "I'm here to collect X" and they corrected me and said their new name.

So I was already miffed as I told them we need time and to think about this and to maybe test it out with friends. I don't like being corrected about my child's name at pick up.

They get in the car and ask when I'm going to tell school their new name and that they can't use the female toilets or changing rooms anymore.......

Help me understand or tell me I'm not going crazy to still call them their "dead name" according to them.

for about the millionth time Intersex people are not a mysterious third sex, they are people born with a disorder of sexual development (DSD) and they are still either male or female. They have repeatedly asked thar 1. Ppl don’t use the term intersex as it’s misleading and insulting and 2. Not to have their condition used as a gotcha in discussions on trans issues

I'm never sure why people with DSDs are brought into this argument because.

A) They've asked not to be.
B) There is, as far as I can see, no over representation of those with DSDs among those identifying as Trans. They are totally separate issues.

Quite.Polydactyl people don't disprove the fact that humans are pentadactyl. If anything, they are the exception that proves the rule, because we recognise that they have a variation of development.I wish people would stop dragging people with DSDs into this as if it proves anything. It's not only lazy and exploitative, it's just really outdated. I'd report what some DSD bloggers have said about it but I'd get deleted. Suffice to say, it's ignorant and offensive to them.

The name thing is ridiculous. If it was maybe a more masculine name then I think you'd have a debate on your hands but imagine saying I don't like being called Charlotte, I want to be called Isobel from now in (examples) - it's very primary school.

As for non binary, it's not really a thing unless you subscribe to gender stereotypes and believe that gender is binary (I mean, how can you be none of something that you don't believe in?). It's attention seeking and not healthy if she's pandered to.
.

@PeskyPenguin she got bullied for having a bob?! Bloody hell kids are horrible.

Id use whatever name she wants for her (my family all still call me a random name I made up when I was a child, including my spouse and adult friends!) but just tell her she can change it herself when she is older, you aren’t doing it because she is too young and it costs money.

If she wants to make a fuss about showers and names at school let her do it herself, if she is old enough to choose a name she will have forever she is old enough to deal with the admin herself!

@PeskyPenguin

Why do you object to the name change but not the 'they/them' which is actually what people consider the damaging part?

(Similar to) Jessica to Jasmine isn't really anything to object about. I do wonder though if your DD is actually using the trans thing to get a name change because she is unhappy with her given name?

This is the exact reason why the youth worker will be using their preferred name. Its not their job to tell any young person who they are- it is their job to maintain open dialogue and support the young person to figure it out for themselves.

@Lavender14 I could understand that if OP spoke to the youth worker in front of her daughter but it doesn't sound like that was the case. With that in mind, why would the YW need to correct OP if her daughter wasn't within ear shot?

I'm not sure why you are so resistant to the name change. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3 girls from secondary school (back in then 90's) who either decided to use their middle names or a completely new name. It is a pretty benign way of 'reinventing yourself'. Maybe she just doesn't like her given name?
Not using female loos is just daft, but as PP said, just let her deal with the practicalities of that.
You talk of her declaring she is bi and then lesbian as if she is attention seeking. If this is a genuine process of identifying her sexuality then you should be supporting her in this not seeing it as troublemaking.

It was a very good interview, I think it was one of a series of interviews re trans issues and really stood out because of the determination and strength of the mother not to give in to the woo and allow her daughter to go down the rabbit hole.

Massive power trip for kids

i wish girls were given the same power to call out sexism.

I clicked on this as I changed my name as an adult, legally, 30 years ago.
My family still refuse to use my name.

But, of course, it's not abou that.
My Dd's School called me, last summer, when she was 14.
Used the name Alex & said that they needed to discuss some preferences of HIs.
I thought they'd called the wrong number as I have a Dd called (feminine name)
THey immediately said 'was I a parent denying them their choices - a 'red flag'.
I countered with 'why are you disclosing re a vulnerable child (she has ASD & is semi mute so I doubt she had a long chat about anything at school...) when you do not know if she has a supportive home - that's a red flag for your Dept surely'? But, I had to tread carefully as I live in Scotland & it's totally nuts here.

I'd go with asking what 'trans' means to your child. My Dd didn't have a clue.
Apparantly, 'all' her friends are. There is NO proper adult guidance for them sadly. Yes to a 'nickname' with friends if they want. NO to drugs/surgery/changes to birth cert for now. IMO you need to be about 25 to make those decisions.

In all seriousness, most people fit the definition of being non binary. To actually identify as "cis" is to believe that you have an innate something inside you which aligns with a set of extremely regressive stereotypes our culture has attached to your sex.

To declare oneself NB is actually saying far more about how you view other people (who you assume identity with regressive sex stereotypes) and your desire to control other people, than it is about your own special personality.

But at 13.... Didn't we all think our mums were completely different creatures that we would never in a million years be like? Weren't many of us "not like other girls"? And of course there's the fact that teen girls often have good reason to want to escape their sex. I am furious with the adults who have enabled this situation. Ensuring that a certain cohort of children cannot be properly safeguarded and risk having signs of really serious shit like sexual abuse ignored in favour of pandering to their special identity.

Social media is to blame for this, I don't understand why parents are allowing their children to have profiles.

@PeskyPenguin a few years ago I had my very long hair cut very short. I suggested to my teen dd that she consider cutting her hair short as I think it would really suit her.

She said no Mum cos people will think I'm a boy. I said why does it matter if a person who is not really paying attention thinks you're a boy? I pointed out that as a teen I was often mistaken for an adolescent lad and tbh it cut down on a lot of the casual street harassment.

I got the teenage sigh. No mum, kids at school will keep asking me if I'm really a boy and I can't be bothered. She has already had to deal with classmates being a bit weird because some of her interests are not stereotypical "girly" so she didn't want to draw more attention.

Today's generation of teens really seem to buying into a very regressive set of gender stereotypes that my generation kicked back at and called sexist.

Are you quite controlling with your dd OP? Why did she have to beg to change her hair style, why are you refusing to let her change her name (if it's one girls name to another this is not a gender issue)? It sounds like the relationship between you is quite toxic atm - her constantly pushing you and you constantly resisting. That can lead to quite extreme behaviour so it might be worth you trying to change the dynamic between you.

Hi OP. Lots of very hardline parents here who maybe can’t remember what it’s like to be a teenager but I get the sense that you are not like that. As others have said lots of teens change their name and I think respecting their wishes on that is probably the way forward.

I think counselling sounds like a really good idea.

You mentioned there had been some bullying. I am wondering if she is being picked on in the girls’ toilets? Perhaps that is why she doesn’t want to use them? Maybe investigate this.

Have you seen Better Things? The young teen daughter in that is non-binary and though the mum is resistant at first the way they accept her and don’t make a meal of it so that she feels free to express herself but isn’t transitioning per se is well depicted. Worth a watch maybe!

YABU.

Just treat it as any other passing fad kids have. It might mean something longterm, it might not, but it might damage your relationship if you get into a battle over thing.

I would respond as if my toddler has told me they're now a cat and I have to meow to them. Play along, make games out of it.

Re the youth worker and people getting upset over that, was it as innocuous as 'I'm here to pick up Jennifer [original name]' 'oh, Jasmine? Sure I'll go get them'?

Or did they literally correct you with 'their name isn't Jennifer, it's Jasmine, get it right' like people seem to be imagining...

This is so good to hear. This is exactly what I feel with my niece who currently decides when she/he/they wake up in the morning what pronouns she wants everyone to use that day... just to confuse and trip people up in my opinion

I disagree about treating it like any fad. For most kids they will grow out of it whatever the parents do or don’t do. But for some it may be the start of a path that’s wrong for them and leaves them with permanent physical and mental damage eg infertility. That’s not the same as becoming a goth.

I do think the OP should be explaining to their DD the reasons for their decision and having an open conversation.

I also think the concept of non-binary reinforces regressive gender stereotypes.

I don’t have teens yet but I’ve had experience of working with adults who have identified as non-binary. How are the schools dealing with it? Do they accept the name change, choosing what toilets/showers are used etc?

There is a lot of sense on this thread (unlike IRL). I agree that children are fundamentally being brainwashed - one of my DC said it’s “social suicide” to be normal at school so everyone now identifies as something LGBTQ related…

Just an observation though - all of the DC who I know who have “changed gender” have significant mental health issues.

Try and find me a single trans person who doesn’t have anxiety, or depression, or suicidal thoughts/self harm, or school refusal - they don’t exist. It’s a mental illness that needs treating, not fucking enabling!

As to that youth worker - how did you restrain yourself from telling her to fuck off?! I’m generally overly polite with people if anything but I suspect I’d have lost my shit at that!

Lots of us don’t really like our names
thats life
just get on with it.

But for some it may be the start of a path that’s wrong for them and leaves them with permanent physical and mental damage eg infertility. That’s not the same as becoming a goth.

I agree with this. My cousin's child started the path as innocuously as this - name change/pronouns. It eventually progressed to chest binding and then male hormones. Thankfully, she never got as far as surgery.

A few years later, she's back to living as a woman. Being both autistic and gay, the idea that she was 'really a boy' blind sided her for a while. But now she sees that as nonsense. However some of the effects of hormones are long term.

Social transition is not a neutral path. As the Cass report makes clear.

@Minfilia totally agree and I have been living it!

Many people warned that “they” (no names mentioned) would come for our children. It seemed unlikely, until it happened. It’s a disgrace.