To not know what I want my title to be?

[KeithBurtons]

Divorced 6 years, kept surname but don't really want to be known as Mrs any more. I'd like to put some distance between my marriage and who I am now but my options are limited:

Mrs- presumption that I am married or widowed
Miss- presumption that I've never been married
Ms- presumption that I'm divorced (I know that this theoretically is the option that doesn't tell the reader anything about marital status but a straw poll of 15 friends tells me that nobody knows a woman who has never been married that uses Ms, all the Ms they know are divorced)

Mx- suggests nothing about marital status but presumption that I am transgender.

I don't want to be Mrs Burtons any more but none of the other options are any better really- I'm sort of erring towards Miss but why should my title give any indication of my marital status? It really feels completely irrelevant and it's pissing me right off. On the other hand, if it is irrelevant why do I want to get away from being Mrs so much??

YABU- you're overthinking this
YANBU- I can see why you're annoyed

You are overthinking it. Lots of never married women use Ms.

In Scotland (or my area of Scotland at least) the norm is Miss/Sir when directly addressing the teacher; but when talking about the teacher (or when other staff address us in front of kids) the name and title is used. I’ve worked in maybe 10 schools and this has been the case in all of them. In primary schools; teachers go by their title and last name.

Annoyingly; the school keep changing me to Ms. They don’t do the same to my colleagues who are similarly aged but kid free, they are happy for them to be Miss. I do correct them because I like my title. If they referred to us all by Ms I’d be okay with that. But they don’t. They assume that kids = not Miss.

Do a PhD and become a Dr

Even when I was a kid I though the Miss / Sir thing was SO sexist.

I thought well a Sir is like a KNIGHT, a Miss is like a little girl.

Now I am an adult it doesn’t make sense either, the equivalent of Sir is Madam.

I found it weird; even as a kid; but tbh it’s easier than having to remember everyone’s name (from a kids POV) - especially a teacher they only see for a short time or only for an hour a week.

I absolutely do not want a bunch of teenagers calling me Madame 😂

Ms is for divorced women? Who knew? I thought it was for adult women who don't want to be defined by their marital status. I've been Ms my whole adult life. When single, when in casual relationships, and also when married.

I’m a Ms, have been since I was an adult. I’m married, and kept my own name.

I don’t care what other people think it signifies, to me it signifies that it is no one’s business whether I’m married or not!

Ms = divorced? Who dreamed that up? Ms is just to get a degree of parity with men, who are all Mr - so no idea if single or married.

In my school all male teachers were Sir and all female teachers were Madam. Maybe it was ahead of the times.

I certainly wouldn't care about looking young and cool to teenagers. That would be even lower down my list of priorities than being able to look down on married/unmarried women.

That would make you a pretty bad teacher then, so probably best you aren’t one. Looking young and cool to teenagers IS important to teachers. Less behaviour issues; more subject uptake which leads to more job security … yeah, pretty important.

Believe me looking cool to the pupils is way way down the list of priorities when you're a teacher!

As a teacher, I disagree. My jobs on the line if more people don’t choose my subject (I’m speaking literally here - we have too many staff in my subject for current uptake and I’m the last one through the door!)

The UK is so weird! In the rest of the English speaking world (and if we are including where English is used a second language, that's most of the world - English is the default international business language these days) uses Ms as the default without a second thought. I've known older Indian etc. women use Mrs, but the title really is dying out outside the UK.

Coming back to the UK and getting companies addressing me as "Mrs" because I've got a child with me is a shock whenever it happens. It's like stepping back into a Jane Austen novel. Like, seriously?

At least in Jane Austen's day, it was obvious which title to use, because unmarried women wore different headgear and so on.

Nowadays, there is no easy to way to work out someone's status, so if these titles are expected to be used, it results and presumptuous and intrusive attempts to judge a stranger's marital status.

Peering at someone and trying to guess their age or decide if they "look married" is really, really rude.

Having Ms as the default for everyone female is polite and professional; every time a woman insists on being addressed as "Miss" or "Mrs" ("What's wrong with being PROUD TO BE MARRIED!!" Jesus, pass me the sick bucket), it helps to keep these tiresome old titles going, whereas they should be left to die a gentle death.

How many people really even see or know your title anymore? It’s not on emails or your work signature or social media. It’s not even on passports or driving licenses (I’ve just looked). Maybe the odd letter that comes through the post about council tax or the mortgage but how many people see those and make the assumption about whether you’re divorced or not? Maybe the postman if he’s very nosey but otherwise just go with Ms, literally no one will even notice or care.

TItles can be quite handy if you've got some twat of a manager saying that "We must all declare our pronouns!!!"

When I was asked to do that, I added (Ms.) after my name, as I think "pronouns" are a load of fucking shite but didn't want to get into an argument with someone who had clearly drunk deep of the genderwoo.

If it helps I'm very happily married and use Ms. My surname is double-barrelled. I used Ms before mariage too. I am surprised there are still people under the age of 80 who would think like this tbh (I'm sure many of 80 plus don't either)

Nowadays, there is no easy to way to work out someone's status, so if these titles are expected to be used, it results and presumptuous and intrusive attempts to judge a stranger's marital status.

Agree, it's a minefield as well as stupid. There really is no way to navigate the whole silly system that doesn't risk pissing someone off.

Well that's really unfortunate for anyone hoping for a long term career in teaching then.

The only teachers I remember as being young and cool, irrespective of marital status - and I can think of a few who were definitely Mrs - were in their 20s and, er, cool.

You're 34, you still see yourself as young. I get it, I just turned 37 and I still see myself as young too. But kids most certainly will not see you as young. That ship has unfortunately sailed.

They might still see you as cool, but your marital status won't be a factor in that.

It's utterly bizarre that you seem to think being a "Miss" rather than a "Mrs" will make any difference to how many kids want to choose your subject!

Focus on how to make your lessons inspiring instead!

I am very fortunate that I look significantly younger than what I am, and have a very young outlook. By “teacher standards” I am young - given that most qualified teachers are 24+ (5 years at uni plus a probation year after leaving school at 18) - they specifically say they like our subject because “all the teachers are young” - I’m in the middle age wise.

I guess it depends on the demographic of the school you work in - ours is mainly older (50+) so I am most certainly significantly below the average age; and I have a pretty “young” outlook, even compared to some people who are younger than me - being from a working class background definitely helps with that one!

Yep. Use Ms

My lessons are just fine thanks. I like being a Miss, it’s part of my identity that I’m proud of, and your opinion on it is t going to change mine - why the hell would I change my title to Mrs when I’ve never been married and never intend to get married?

You need to do a doctorate :-)

Do that thing where you buy a square foot of land on some Scottish estate so you can call yourself 'Lady'. Problem solved!

Just checked and the average age for a secondary teacher in Scotland is 41, so at just turned 34 I am definitely on the young side 😄