More of a WWYD re inherited house

[Pbbananabagel]

So my Sibling and I inherited a house from our parents which they have been living in for the last few years.
with the cost of living crisis obviously money is tight for both our families and I am now desperate to either sell to be honest as it would be a life changing amount of money at present.
my sibling obviously has no intention of leaving but says they cannot buy me out at present due to lack of finance herself but this is really impacting on my family of 4 whereas they only have themself and partner to think of as child is significantly older and at Uni now. They pay all bills and maintenance on the house and I’ve never wanted to demand anything more but I feel like I’m being taking my a mug now.

aibu to be really frustrated? I don’t want to piss them off as they’re the only family I have now but I really need to figure out how to move this issue forward.

I also agree that it was highly likely this was a premeditated decision by your sister to move in

The thought had occurred to me

If the awkwardness continues and it's down to "I need the money / well so do I", perhaps the only thing left is to outright ask the sister what she plans to do to resolve this. If nothing's forthcoming that might be the time to mention solicitors - not in a "chuck her out" way, but as a suggestion for resolving something that's beyond the two of them

So they took care of your Mum while she was in the last stages of life (you didn't, but you could have helped

How? they have paid all bills and maintenance on the house since your Mum passed, but can't even have a conversation with them about putting it on the market and moving on*

They don't owe you any rent. You owe them nursing fees if anything.

Who actually owns the house? You need to tell them you want to sell and work out a way forwards.

Another point is that property will be seen as a capital asset should you ever need to claim income related benefits.

You both need to seek some legal advice and your sister needs to speak to a financial advisor to look if they can afford a mortgage to buy you out. If she can’t she needs to either rent or buy a smaller property with the proceeds of sale.

However this can’t continue.

What nursing fees?

There are no nursing fees to pay in the situation outlined. Ops mum would have had nhs funded carers going in. This was a sad illness and death from cancer. Nursing home fees are not applicable.

They don't owe you any rent. You owe them nursing fees if anything

No, they don't "owe" rent as things stand - it's just been suggested as a possible way to move this forward

... and rightly or wrongly, the nursing fees thing was wiped out when the mum left the property 50/50

Sorry half my message didn’t post.

They took care of the mum for 8 weeks/2months
They have had 4 years free of rent and mortgage

I would turn sisters reply about not being able to sell atm as they are struggling round on her and point out that if she is struggling just paying bills and maintenance on the house then obviously they really can’t afford to go on like that.
You are both struggling and the sale of the house will mean that with the money they can find somewhere that doesn’t have such large outgoings.

Selling the house is the obvious answer if you are both struggling for money

Take legal advice.
Ideally your sister should buy you out.
If they can't do that the house needs to be sold.
I would avoid the rental route . The pitfalls are myriad.

Even if there is no will, the OP should be entitled to an equal share of the estate. However, I wonder whether the the estate has ever been probated and declared, I have a nasty feeling that things have just been allowed to continue with any formal disposal, as any executor ( even if it was ‘just’ the sisters) would have had to put the property on a proper footing.

OP, if your mother did die intestate, and you have not declared the estate, you need to do so asap. I think that if the value of the house and any other property is over £325,000, there will be inheritance tax to pay. Failure to do this amounts to tax evasion.

if there is no will, and the property has not been re- registered in the new owners names, you will not be able to sell the house, because you do not have title.

you need to consult a solicitor , because what you would like to do is conditional on what you can do.

Sorry ArcticSkewer & Puzzledandpissedoff I was quoting someone else but my actual reply to the points didn’t post

Can I ask how your work that out? I don’t know anywhere in the Uk where you can pay

council tax
standing charges on gas and electricity
use of gas and electric (need to keep the place heated in winter )
buildings insurance ( will be more expensive as it’s unoccupied )
garden maintenance ( if a house )
service charges ( if a flat )

I’d personally look at it from the perspective of what would I have done if I hadn’t inherited the house like what would my plans have been then. But I also believe they should be paying you half rent if they refuse to sell. Sometimes you have to be selfish put yourself first

Sorry posted too soon

For £80 a month. Please tell me the name of your utility suppliers so I can switch to them.

I wonder whether the the estate has ever been probated and declared

Surely they'd have been obliged to do that? While no expert I believe the level of assets at which probate becomes necessary is up to £50k, and with a house involved the estate's going to be over that?

Yes, that is legally the case. But as long as the death is registered, and pensions and benefits have been discontinued, I don’t think that the state is necessarily aware that there is an estate to be wound up ( ages since I had to do this, so I may be out of date). The incentive for probate as an individual who is the executor is to finalise the inheritance!
I think that as long as you continue to pay council tax, the State doesn’t necessarily know there is an estate. If one of the beneficiaries was living in the house at the time of the owners death and has continued to do so, I’m not sure that anyone would ‘find out’ - until of course it has to be sold or even rented out when the whole question of title arises.

of course, not declaring the estate is unlawful, as you say.

You don't have to go through probate if things are very straightforward. A single, only child friend of mine had pooled resources with her mother and they had bought a large house together, with my friend paying 70% of the cost. It was owned outright in joint names. Her mother was ill for a couple of years before her death and put all her bank accounts etc in joint names with her daughter for convenience. On her death the mother had an IHT allowance of £650k (her own £325k allowance and her husband's £325k allowance) which far exceeded the value of her estate. The daughter didn't need probate to remove her mother's name from the deeds of the house or to access her savings.

But to sell the house the OP will need to go through probate. It does also beg the question of the rest of the mother's estate. Jewellery, items of value, money in savings accounts or pension drawdown... What about all these things, OP?

I'd ask them how they'd feel about you moving in too.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

When my aunt died , my father was joint executor with the bank. He decided not to inform them, as their charges were high and he was perfectly capable of dealing with it. They never knew.

That was some time ago, but even now , the State and financial institutions are reliant on being given information, there isn’t much interchange between different branches of the process. I suppose that OPs mother was not submitting a self assessment form, so the discontinuation of that would not be a trigger.

speculation of course. But oh the arguments for making a will…….

Yes, I see what you mean, Allthegoodnamesarechosen

Of course, if a solicitor's been involved they'd have started the proper legal processes around probate and the rest, but that's if one's been involved and this isn't certain

OP will probably need one now though ...

Did they provide care for your mother? just I think that changes things a bit in their favour.

This might not be a popular opinion, but I think it is never worth falling out with family over money if it's at all avoidable.

I think you need to sit down in a neutral place and have a chat with them, though. They need to see this situation is now unfair on you - you've been generous and you love them - but it's time to sell and split the money.

They moved in and provided care for the mother for two months before her death. She died of cancer and would have had a lot of NHS support if she was anything like my friends who've had cancer — carers and nurses and hospice-at-home service with almost constant care in the last few weeks.

I'm one of those with a growing suspicion that the sister and her partner had a plan. They've done well out of it. Nearly five years rent and mortgage free, and all at the OP's expense.

Your sister has had a few years of having no rent or mortgage at your expense. It's given her ample opportunity to get herself in a better financial position. The house needs to be sold and you are being taken advantage of.

Oof. I think you need a (ideally in writing) exchange with your sister which is explicitly about the future of the house / your plans and hers. Because otherwise this can easily roll into decades of "same old" and then an explosive family break-up, in the worst case scenario. I'd also echo PP's suggestions of getting legal advice.

So, I was this sibling. Parent very ill, I was renting so moved back home.
When parent died, my siblings did not want to sell and so I stayed in the house and paid the bills etc. I also paid for a heating upgrade along with a new roof.
Siblings thought they were doing me a good turn and at first we were all very happy with the arrangement.
The whole time I lived there after parent died, I felt most uncomfortable although my siblings insisted they were delighted with the arrangement and wanted me to stay. Eventually, after much persistence on my part, we decided to sell.
I knew all along that we would eventually have to sell and with the market rising and rising I was going to be left in a situation where I'd be priced out of ever buying my own home again.
In fact, I did very badly on the deal. What I put into the house was much more than I would have paid on rent and any rise in the value on the house was wiped out when it was divided equally.
However, I would say that I have an excellent relationship with my siblings and we are very close. I can see how this could have ended in tears if I'd allowed it to.
Best to get it sorted ASAP and save your relationship.

I think You need to sit down with them and remind them you own half the house, say you need them to realise while it is a join assset, so long as you also own half then your also going to be repeating equity as the house price rises.
That if they get a mortgage they will own the house in full, and as they would be paying the same in rent why would they not want to own all of the house .

As Pp said , you need legal advice so you know the options. Then you need a discussion with your sister.

you may also need other advice , eg an accountant or a letting agent.

For example , Pp have said “ you might get £500 / month for rent “. But you will have to pay half of all repairs and maintenance , insurance etc . And you will have to pay tax on any profit you make.

£6,000 a year might sounds a lot, but costs will be high. If your sister wants a new kitchen, how will you decide if the budget is £5k or £10k?

What is she wants the place redecorated but you think it’s fine ?

Do you know the legal duties that you would have as a landlord ? Do things like annual gas safety checks, PAT tests, EICR apply if your tenant is also a part owner ? Whose job will it be to deal with these things? Who will pay for the legal documents that will be required ?

what will you do if your Sister stops paying rent ? Perhaps for a genuine reason like she loses her job?

What if she stops paying because you refuse to replace her carpets or the gas bills are too high ? Tenants stop paying for reasons like this all the time.

Do you really want to go down that route ? Because if your sister was going to be reasonable , you wouldn't be where you are today .

People think that being a landlord is money for old rope but it can be a nightmare, especially with difficult tenants. So you need to information so you can consider each option carefully before you offer it to her.

In your situation I would want it sold , either to your sister ( at market value) or to a third party.