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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you give MIL a second chance?

228 replies

Maynot · 12/03/2023 21:13

I genuinely don't know how to feel about this as I'm shocked. For context, DH and I do not smack our DS(6). I am not here to debate that, only note that it is not how we are raising our son. This has never happened before and we are close with MIL, usually seeing her multiple times a week.

DS is autistic and when he gets overly excited he can be rough in play. When playing this morning he bit MIL. MIL then hit him hard on the back and shouted at him that he should not bite. This obviously frightened him. We tried to explain why to him we don't bite/do our usual discipline but he was inconsolable. He kept hiding behind me and asking to go home.

When I went to help DS get ready to leave, DH called her out on it. He said that he understood that it may have been an old habit/instant reaction, however we do not hit DS and to please never do that again. She said that we can parent how we want, but she will discipline as she sees fit.

DH told me this when we got home and we are both shocked and disgusted. We sat DS down and told him that is was wrong to bite his Grandma but it was also wrong for Grandma to hit him. And that if anybody ever hits him again to tell us right away.

DH has said that if it ever happens again that it will be the last time she sees us, however I now feel very uncomfortable. I would maybe agree if she'd apologised however it feels like a looming threat that she will "discipline as she sees fit". Am I overreacting? Would you give her a second chance?

OP posts:
Plodstop · 13/03/2023 05:22

Would you give her a second chance? - You might not need to. It's interesting how you are keeping the ball in your court and making the decisions when she may well have already decided to not want to be alone with him again.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 13/03/2023 05:27

Shropshirepie · 12/03/2023 21:27

What a difficult situation. You are definitely not overreacting and I, like you, never hit our DC, not even as an instant reaction.
MIL can discipline as she sees fit but she wouldn’t be doing it with my DC.

DH needs to explain if she wants to continue seeing your DS then she must follow your way of parenting with regards to hitting.

This.

I think that even if she agreed to never hit him again, it would be a very long time before I let her and my DS be alone together.

Fimofriend · 13/03/2023 05:50

If you knew very well that he sometimes bites when he gets overexcited why did you refrain from calming him down before he bit your MIL?

When my kids were smaller I knew that sometimes them playing rough would end in tears so I never let it go on for long. They were still allowed to have fun just not that kind for more than a couple of minutes. My parents found it harsh but I would have had to be the one who had to spend several hours in A&E if something went wrong.

SkyandSurf · 13/03/2023 05:59

I can't believe the pile on- he's six and he has autism. I'm sure OP doesn't encourage him to bite people, it sounds like she disciplines him in a way that works for them, and the child is receptive to.

It's not ok for an adult to hit a child, regardless of what the child has done. There is no equivalency between what the grandmother and the child did.

Grandparents certainly do not get to 'discipline as they see fit' and this attitude needs swift correction.

I'd actually propose family counseling with grandma to make it very clear she needs to stay in her lane re: discipline and that hitting a child is incredibly serious.

If she refuses counseling I'd reconsider spending time with her.

Ladybug14 · 13/03/2023 06:01

Does MIL know that DS can bite when he becomes over excited?

Does MIL know what YOU do when this happens?

I'll be honest - if a 6 year old bit me and I wasn't expecting it or prepared for it, I would probably shout, tell him off and possibly cry (if the pain was bad)

I wouldn't hit the child, but I'd be wary of looking after him again

However, if I had been forewarned, I'd have been careful not to let him get over excited in the first place

BMrs · 13/03/2023 06:07

Shropshirepie · 12/03/2023 21:27

What a difficult situation. You are definitely not overreacting and I, like you, never hit our DC, not even as an instant reaction.
MIL can discipline as she sees fit but she wouldn’t be doing it with my DC.

DH needs to explain if she wants to continue seeing your DS then she must follow your way of parenting with regards to hitting.

Exactly this!

Set your boundaries and make it clear it's not acceptable. I've had to do this with my MIL too.

Snugglemonkey · 13/03/2023 06:25

Plodstop · 13/03/2023 05:09

I've been bitten whilst working in SEN and I've also been kicked and spat at etc. We are trained to deal with this behaviour and de escalate. Many grandmas are not.
I have had several blood clots in one calf and it's been kicked a few times causing me a lot of pain. I'm always aware of it and often subconsciously 'protect' that leg if that makes sense.
Grandma could also be on warfarin or other medication where a bite could have serious consequences.
I think she was shocked. Shocked physically at being bitten and shocked at not having an apology or the parents stepping in to give one or making sure she was OK as well.

She should not have hit the child but I do think her defensive reaction could be expected and she probably feels like terrible granny now and frankly I wouldn't feel safe being left alone with the child at her age unless I'd had some training or advice on managing their behaviour. Have you explained to her that he bites and what to do in that scenario before?

I would imagine that if she felt terrible, she would apologise. However this grandmother says openly that she would do it again. Sounds unrepentant to me.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 13/03/2023 06:27

UWhatNow · 12/03/2023 23:08

Oh give over. This all happened in a moment of emotional reaction. Biting is incredibly painful and she is of the generation that would think he’ll only know the pain of that if he experienced it himself. I know biting is ‘normal’ but it is not desirable behaviour and it should be discouraged and disciplined. Yes, even in children with ASD.

I am in my 60's, and this sort of comment really frustrates me:

"she is of the generation that would think he'll only know the pain of that if he experienced it himself."

There has been no generation like that in my living memory, and neither sets of my Grandparents ever thought like that either.

If my father was still alive - he would be nearly 100 years old - he would have found himself divorced pretty damn quickly if he had ever hit me, or any of my siblings. I can only remember my Dearest Mum losing her temper once with my bickeriing siblings and me (we had an open fire - don't worry, you can read on), she picked up the poker from the fireplace and thumped it down on a piece of wooden furniture near to us - I must have been about 8 years old at the time - I think that that shocked her as much as us, and her anger dissipated as quickly as it had come, but my siblings and I were equally as shocked, because that was the first (and last) time that she ever showed any sort of violent behaviour.

None of my friends' parents ever showed any violent tendencies. Since having my own children, I have never personally known any parents who have shown that sort of behaviour either.
Of course throughout my adult life I have seen children being smacked when we have been in supermarkets etc, but thank goodness not many, and those that were doing the smacking were often of a much younger generation than me, eg I saw it more between about the middle noughties to about 2018, than I ever did when my Dear Children were youngsters.

You say @UWhatNow that the MiL's behaviour was in a moment of emotional reaction, and that being bitten is very painful. Well yes, I know it is very painful, because when I was about 9 years old my Yorkshire Terrier bit me on the cheek whilst we were both on the sofa. My reaction was not to lash out, I sort of jumped up and exclaimed, and backed away a little, and by the time my DM came in from the kitchen having heard my exclamation - probably a loud "ow", or similar - I was telling my dog how sorry I was that I had either scared or annoyed him. The pain and shock from the bite had not made me react angrily at all, I genuinely felt sorry that I must have upset my poor dog.

Of course biting has to be discouraged, but maybe you and I have different interpretations of the word 'discipline', because in my mind you never discipline young children, and especially not those who are not NT. IMO it is every parents job to listen to, explain to, and gently try to teach their young children, how to behave appropriately in any given situation - or to just withdraw them from situations where explanations etc are not possible, or at least not at that moment in time.

Heatherjayne1972 · 13/03/2023 06:28

You simply can’t discipline an autistic child the same way you would a nt child (- we have several in our family )
so often they don’t connect the discipline to the action in the same way that a nt child understands actions and consequences

it wasn’t right to bite his grandma no but she’s the adult and lashing out like that is very wrong

she wouldn’t be left alone with my child again.

FigTreeInEurope · 13/03/2023 06:29

Who the hell does she think she is? "I'll discipline as I see fit." She doesn't respect you as parents, and sees herself in a parenting role. I'm shocked at the number of people minimizing this.

CarrieSmisher · 13/03/2023 06:31

It sounds like she might have been quite shocked when she said this. People say things in the heat of the moment.

I'd let the dust settle then have a chat. She may express genuine sorrow at what happened, although so should you. She was injured and that should be acknowledged.

It sounds like you know he behaves violently when excited, and I agree with PP's, a bite is extremely painful. Coming up with strategies to limit this risk is something you need to do. This will help the family understand how to manage him more effectively.

Ames85 · 13/03/2023 06:31

Based on what she has said in response, I would not leave my child with her. I have never smacked my children, despite biting phases from both and both being autistic. I would not leave them with people who may act against my wishes

SwordToFlamethrower · 13/03/2023 06:31

If someone bit me i would hit them back. Consequences!

Explain to your kid that if you hurt people, they may hurt you worse. That is life. Why should kids with autism get a free pass all the time?

I remember years ago in a shop. I was sexually assaulted by a young man. He grabbed my arse. I turned around and his mum said "I'm sorry, he is autistic" as if I was supposed to say "oh ok that is fine then".

This type of thing needs to stop. Your mil was assaulted and you're mad at her for retaliating? Have a word with yourself. Today he bit. He will grow up thinking no consequences and will only escalate. I fear for women in the future.

Assault is not ok. Your mil acted in self defence and I don't blame her!

Mummyoflittledragon · 13/03/2023 06:37

EmmaDilemma5 · 12/03/2023 21:32

I totally agree that she shouldn't have done that.

I would let the dust settle for a week or two. Let her think it through over time. She may be being a bit stubborn and actually, when she's processed the situation, will realise she shouldn't have done it.

Being physically hurt can be triggering but even if she did it unintentionally, like you say, her lack of apology and her indignation that she'll discipline him how she likes is worrying.

I think I'd create some space and see how your son and his grandma feel in time.

What are the odds of him physically hurting her again? If it's high then I think you need to sit with her to agree a planned response maybe.

I think this is the best way forward. Allow everyone to calm down a little. I think it’s entirely different to say you’d theoretically hit a child if they did x than double down in the moment for how she reacted. Your mil is only human and probably doesn’t get what you’re trying to do. The book “What do you want from me” suggested upthread looks good.

Ladybug14 · 13/03/2023 06:39

@SSwordToFlamethrower - but an adult hitting a child is assault. Surely you wouldn't assault a child under any circumstances?

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 13/03/2023 06:59

I think you should be reacting more to the fact that your son is violent and BITES people.

Maybe she reacted in shock/pain/fright?

What help are you getting for your son?

Ionlydrinkondaysendinginy · 13/03/2023 07:06

To be fair it's very unlikely he will ever bite her again so hopefully it won't be a situation that arises again

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 13/03/2023 07:07

To be fair it's very unlikely he will ever bite her again

Are you a fortune-teller?

ReneBumsWombats · 13/03/2023 07:08

It was shit parenting then and it's shit parenting now, only now we know conclusively that it's shit parenting and there's no excuse. And discipline as she sees fit? He's not her child.

So no, if she's not sorry and I can't trust her not to assault my children, no second chance. If she doesn't understand that, try hitting her, since she seems to think that's an intelligent and reasonable method of communication and socialising people who don't know how.

Be prepared for an avalanche of...people telling you why this is OK though, and literally lying about what people have said. Like the ones who think "hitting kids is unacceptable" means "you should never correct or socialise kids". Just further proof of how stunting hitting is.

Ionlydrinkondaysendinginy · 13/03/2023 07:10

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 13/03/2023 07:07

To be fair it's very unlikely he will ever bite her again

Are you a fortune-teller?

If it frightened him its not something he will forget quickly. When a consequence bothers you your unlikely to repeat the action

ReneBumsWombats · 13/03/2023 07:17

Ionlydrinkondaysendinginy · 13/03/2023 07:10

If it frightened him its not something he will forget quickly. When a consequence bothers you your unlikely to repeat the action

Good, then MIL won't assault her grandchildren again when she's denied access for being such a shit.

I'm sure we used to mostly realise hitting children is inexcusable, especially now the long term studies are in that price it causes mental health problems in life and was mostly practised by dim and under-socialised people. I'm not sure what brought in this recent influx of people defending and excusing it but I really hope it's temporary. They're really keen on it. Last time they started turning into a discussion of their BDSM fetishism (yes, we were talking about children) and it was so fucking creepy I had to leave.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 13/03/2023 07:22

Dacadactyl · 12/03/2023 21:58

To be fair to the woman, she could've just lashed out as an instant response to the bite.

Teachers, TAs and nursery staff get bitten by children. Is it acceptable for any of them to lash out as an instinctive response?

WhereYouLeftIt · 13/03/2023 07:46

"Ds very rarely bites, but when he does it's when he's over excited and playing not when angry or having a meltdown"
You and your DH were present, did you not notice him getting over-excited, or did it happen too fast? Was your MIL aware he bites in these circumstances? When he bit her, did either of you apologise to her, or in some way acknowledge her shock and pain? You don't mention it in your posts, but I'm hoping you did. If you didn't acknowledge her shock and pain, it could account for her 'discipline as she sees fit' comment, because she was angry with the pair of you.

It's all very well being "shocked and disgusted" at her for her action, but I think you need to think about her being shocked and angry at you and her son for your inaction. You have a child who you know bites, you should have been aware the circumstances which prompt him to bite were happening, and taken steps to prevent him tipping over into being over-excited. You owe that to the people within biting range.

Step back, calm down, acknowledge her feelings and think about the future. Do you really want your son to have no relationship with his grandmother? Personally I don't think he should be with her without supervision from you, DH or both of you - for both their sakes. And I do mean supervision, not just presence. You need to manage his excitement levels, and prevent the biting as best you can.

NerrSnerr · 13/03/2023 07:46

How often is she looking after him?

If she's providing childcare and you all want this to continue I'd discuss strategies to discipline him.

If she's just with him every now and again I would just make sure you're always there.

Knotaknitter · 13/03/2023 07:56

We decided that my son would never be alone with one set of grandparents until he could speak, by the time he was talking they'd had enough time to demonstrate that they hadn't moved on from the 1960s. "If he was mine I'd..." came out time and time again and my husband knew full well what their approach had been seeing as he'd lived through it. My husband didn't want his child treated as he had been treated so we stuck with no unsupervised visits. They had their views, we had ours.