Would you give MIL a second chance?

[Maynot]

I genuinely don't know how to feel about this as I'm shocked. For context, DH and I do not smack our DS(6). I am not here to debate that, only note that it is not how we are raising our son. This has never happened before and we are close with MIL, usually seeing her multiple times a week.

DS is autistic and when he gets overly excited he can be rough in play. When playing this morning he bit MIL. MIL then hit him hard on the back and shouted at him that he should not bite. This obviously frightened him. We tried to explain why to him we don't bite/do our usual discipline but he was inconsolable. He kept hiding behind me and asking to go home.

When I went to help DS get ready to leave, DH called her out on it. He said that he understood that it may have been an old habit/instant reaction, however we do not hit DS and to please never do that again. She said that we can parent how we want, but she will discipline as she sees fit.

DH told me this when we got home and we are both shocked and disgusted. We sat DS down and told him that is was wrong to bite his Grandma but it was also wrong for Grandma to hit him. And that if anybody ever hits him again to tell us right away.

DH has said that if it ever happens again that it will be the last time she sees us, however I now feel very uncomfortable. I would maybe agree if she'd apologised however it feels like a looming threat that she will "discipline as she sees fit". Am I overreacting? Would you give her a second chance?

Yes. That’s exactly what it means when people say that physically assaulting a 6 year old child is out of order…

It's actually against the law for her to smack your DC without your permission (under English and Northern Irish law).

To be fair to the woman, she could've just lashed out as an instant response to the bite.

Sorry, I must have missed where the OP explained what immediate discipline the child received from either of his parents and the part where he appologise for physically assaulting his grandmother?

That would be the last time she saw any of us. You are meant to be your son's advocate and space safe!

Yes, this exactly. My son is autistic and has ADHD and while his impulse control is improving over time he bit me quite badly during a meltdown when he was this age. He didn’t mean to hurt me and he was worried as I had to go to minor injuries unit to be seen, but he was worried for himself because his main carer (me) had to leave him with someone else to do so. He’s not a horrible person, but that action had a negative consequence that he felt immediately.

The Op’s child’s behaviour will improve with time it will just take a bit longer. I know that shouting doesn’t work well with my child as he then gets upset and frightened by it so the message is lost. Not saying I never shout (I’m human, shit happens) but as soon as I do, I’ve usually failed on making the point that I was making until he’s after calmed down. Hitting certainly isn’t something I do.

I think you have to supervise him really, really closely until he gets it, not just with your MiL but with other people. A bite from a 6 year old can really hurt. And if he bites his peers he may have worse than a slap on the back to deal with.

I would not even consider giving her a second chance with that attitude. She would be lucky I didn't punch her. I honestly would leave instantly and ring the police if anyone ever hit my child.

I have taught autistic children for several decades. Sometimes some of them bite. There are any number of reasons that can be behind the behaviour (some bite themselves) which I won't bore you with. We had different strategies for managing the behaviour depending on the reason behind it, but it was rarely an easy fix.

What will NEVER work is hitting them. Many autistic kids like sensory feedback. So that can just lead to an autistic kid who hits as well as bites.

An organisation near my school used to run courses for grandparents, to help them understand autistic behaviours and how to manage them.

OP, is it worth seeing if there's anything like that around you?

It's the fact that she's doubled down on it for me.

If she said 'sorry, I hit out due the shock of the bite' (which could have been understandable, just her reflex) then it could be put to bed. But she's kind of made the impression that she'd do it again if a similar situation arose.

If my MIL did that to my children we would be going NC/LC until she earned the trust back again

I'd get DH to speak to her when things have calmed down a bit. It's disappointing that she doubled down on her choice to hit him when confronted, rather than saying it was just a reaction and she regrets it/will make sure it doesn't happen again etc. but perhaps when she's calmed down she will realise it's not OK and she'll change her tune.

If not, I'd be making sure she knows that you absolutely will not tolerate DS being hit. That's a hard line. And that if it happens again, she won't see him any more. Let her know that clearly that's not what you want, she's a big part of your lives etc etc but that you simply cannot and will not allow anybody - not even her - to treat DS that way. DH needs to have this conversation.

I do agree with PP though that you're going to have to supervise him extremely closely or just not allow the kind of rough playing that leads to biting.

It sounds to me as though both your MIL's and your own discipline techniques are very much lacking! Autism is not a green card for unacceptable behaviour.

Your MIL should not have hit your son, but it sounds like she did it out of shock after being bitten, which I imagine was very painful. Yes, I would forgive her. You want her to apologise, did you apologise to her?
Aside, I would not leave her in charge of childcare unless she agreed to discipline in your own ways.

However, you son regularly plays rough and bit someone, and in response you "tried to explain to him why we don't bite" That will have absolutely no effect.

No second chance for MIL. No adult should hit any child - no matter what the provocation.

Is your Mum actually able to cope with what you call "rough play?" Biting is wrong. I wouldn't be referring to it as "rough play".

I wouldnt cut her off but I do think its best you supervise your own child. Perhaps she's helping you with childcare but, he's your child and in the circumstances it seems best you or your husband are present when he's with her.

Your Son cant help it. & its sad he was scared. But equally your Mum shouldn't have to put up with rough play and being bitten. Shes wrong to say she'll discipline as she sees fit, tho. Have a conversation with her in a few days when things are a bit calmer.

A course for grandparents as a pp has suggested would be good, perhaps you could look into that, see if any in your local area and go along with your Mum.

There are bites and then there are bites. Eldest profoundly autistic at that age would bite without warning and so hard he broke skin drew blood and would not let go. If it was a similar bite to that then I can understand a grandma reacting with a smack. the question would be was the smack left a long lasting mark or not. My son at that stage was not verbal but when he did bite I used everything I could to emphasise that biting was an absolute ‘no’. If your child has enough communication it may be worth giving social stories a go to help explain why biting hurts and when you hurt people they might hurt you back.

She should not have hit him hard on the back - that is awful but she is of an older generation and you are dismissing the bite which would have been a nasty shock to her if it was a bad one

If it had been a reaction to being bit, knee jerk kind of thing, and when your dh said not to do it again and she apologised and said she wouldn't hit him - then fair enough.

But she's basically saying that she'll hit him again if he does something similar - which is highly likely due to his autism

So no, I wouldn't give her a second chance

I hate this "physical assaulting a child" trying to make it sound as horrific as possible. I have elder DS with SEN, and younger boy/girl twins.

I don't smack my children. But I have hit one. Once. Boy twin, age 2, did not want to leave a toy boat lake. Full on melt down. Had to be carried out, stiff as a board in the way toddlers do. He sank his teeth into my bicep, and clamped so hard, his teeth were touching. I have never felt pain like it. I put him down and pulled my arm away, except he was clamped on so hard, he came with my arm. I tried prising my finger between his teeth. Nothing. Then I noticed there was a trickle of blood running down my arm. So I flicked his cheek. Nothing. So I slapped his cheek. And then he let go. I still have the scar, little bugger.

To suggest this is no different to someone slapping their child round the face, coz discipline, is ridiculous. I do not smack or hit my children. I did not assault my child. I removed him from the chunk he was simultaneously biting out of my arm, in the only way I could. All about the context.

MIL reacting in shock to being bitten, is not "assault." MIL continuing to hit him every time he does it, is. But, the actual issue is you have a child that bites. You should be focussing on that, not the measures the people he bites can/can not take.

I have sympathy for your MIL because today my 18 month old DS bit me on the shoulder while coming in for a hug and I automatically pushed him off me hard enough that he fell back and instantly cried. I felt incredibly guilty at the time but now he’s in bed I actually feel quite pissed off with the little sod. I have teeth marks, a bruise and my shoulder is aching. Of course, I know he didn’t mean it but I’d be majorly fucked off if my DH then gave me a lecture about how we shouldn’t push our child in any circumstances blah blah and I probably would have got as defensive as your MIL did.

I think you are minimising the injury to your MIL. Bites bloody hurt and a six year old is big enough and strong enough to have done some damage to her. Obviously she shouldn’t have hit him but it sounds as though you are using your child’s autism diagnosis to excuse their behaviour which will be upsetting to your MIL especially if she is in pain.

An adult assaulted your child. That is the fact even more concerning an adult assaulted a child with additional needs.

She would never be alone with my child ever again and if she ever went for him she would be dealing with the police.

Sorry this happened @Maynot . I also don't smack and I'm sure you were all in a state of shock. I know I would be.

I imagine her response and digging her heels in about discipline could have been more to do with embarrassment/shame than her meaning she would smack him if she sees fit.

Let the dust settle. Maybe your dh could sit with her and talk it out. In the interim I'd also have your son give an apology in a way that he can, whether that's over the phone or a drawing etc. You can't control whether she gives an apology but this is also a teachable moment for your son.

If things don't go well in the chat, I wouldn't cut her off but I would make sure that she doesn't baby-sit and that you are supervising your son when with her. It sounds like prior to this you saw her as a loving Granny. I really hope you can all work it out.

Hitting, putting someone on fear of being hot is assault stop minimizing assault.

Those who are so if I hit you after I accidentally cause you pain, that's okay ?

I would not give a second chance. Your son deserves to be understood and feel safe.

As to all the people commenting who are clueless about autism 🙄

I can understand an immediate reaction to being bitten, sometimes if something hurts you you can react automatically. But her reaction of "I will discipline how I like" would mean that for me I wouldn't be happy with her looking after my child again.

Ds very rarely bites, but when he does it's when he's over excited and playing not when angry or having a meltdown (hence me saying rough play -may have phrased it wrong). Our way of disciplining as well as the schools support with it does work for him, but this time he was too distressed to take in anything else because he had been hit. We left because we couldn't settle him and he felt unsafe.

I know how much a bite can hurt, which is why we both acknowledged that it could have been an instant reaction. That wouldn't have made it okay, but I could understand it. But it's the lack of remorse and the idea that she would be willing to do it again that is very concerning to me.

I've asked DH to speak to her again in a few days and we won't be letting her have DS unsupervised.