Would you give MIL a second chance?

[Maynot]

I genuinely don't know how to feel about this as I'm shocked. For context, DH and I do not smack our DS(6). I am not here to debate that, only note that it is not how we are raising our son. This has never happened before and we are close with MIL, usually seeing her multiple times a week.

DS is autistic and when he gets overly excited he can be rough in play. When playing this morning he bit MIL. MIL then hit him hard on the back and shouted at him that he should not bite. This obviously frightened him. We tried to explain why to him we don't bite/do our usual discipline but he was inconsolable. He kept hiding behind me and asking to go home.

When I went to help DS get ready to leave, DH called her out on it. He said that he understood that it may have been an old habit/instant reaction, however we do not hit DS and to please never do that again. She said that we can parent how we want, but she will discipline as she sees fit.

DH told me this when we got home and we are both shocked and disgusted. We sat DS down and told him that is was wrong to bite his Grandma but it was also wrong for Grandma to hit him. And that if anybody ever hits him again to tell us right away.

DH has said that if it ever happens again that it will be the last time she sees us, however I now feel very uncomfortable. I would maybe agree if she'd apologised however it feels like a looming threat that she will "discipline as she sees fit". Am I overreacting? Would you give her a second chance?

Can’t believe how many people fail to understand the difference in having a ND child. OP, we are an ND family and she would not be coming near my child again if she couldn’t be trusted not to hit him. Smacking is illegal everywhere in the UK except England. Hopefully it won’t be long before England catches up.

"We of course know that biting is never acceptable and we both apologised, as well as DS multiple times.*

Interesting that you put this forward now. Your original post, you don't mention it, just the fact you are waiting for her apology.

I'm a mum to SEN child. And in this instance, you let him down. In your eyes, MIL knows he gets excitable.

Well yeah, so do you. Both of his parents. The ones actually responsible for him. Who just sat there and watched it all unfold until he attacked her. But no, MIL fault eh?

And how you spoke to him about biting not being ok. But MIL, what she did was much worse. And if anyone ever does what she did, that he comes to you straight away. As if she's the problem here. Had your child not attacked her, she would not have defended herself. Knee jerk reaction or otherwise. But you're actively teaching your son that the worse person is the one who reacts to being attacked.

As PP said, he's going to get a lot more than a tap on the back from Grandma when he sinks his teeth into the wrong person. My elder DS bit 3 children at nursery. I don't recall if the first two retaliated but the 3rd bit him back. Horribly. On the cheek. It went black. DS never bit anyone after that. Bet he never bites MIL again either. Biting is appalling, incredibly painful, and dangerous. And you are not instilling this in DS if he continues to do it. If someone hits you, unprovoked, they are wrong. But if someone hits you to try and get you off them because you have sunk your teeth into their flesh, they are defending themselves, and the biter is not a victim.

This 6 year old has Autism, we don’t know what his level of understanding and abilities is.
You can’t know this is bad parenting

In relation to your last comment @Hoppinggreen , we can comment about the parenting of the OP and her DH.

They didn't do anything to diffuse the situation. They were and are aware that their autistic son gets overly excited and bites when in that state but didn't do anything to calm the situation. At least we've not been told that they did anything to diffuse the situation, to calm the situation before it happened, to remove either the granny or the son from the situation.

So, based on what the OP has written so far, we can comment that this is bad or at the very least very poor parenting.

Two days ago there was a post from a mother who had hit her child, with far less provocation. Most posters were ‘Oh hun, we’re all human etc etc’.

Today, an injured grandmother (bites bloody hurt) should be hung, drawn and quartered. This place is batshit.

@7eleven that mother realised she had done the wrong thing and apologised to the child. This grandma felt totally justified in her behaviour and said she would repeat it. Totally different situation.

I am so glad it is illegal here in Wales.

I would not see MIL again, bit until she is properly apologetic. She clearly has no remorse. That is unacceptable. I would not let her near my child.

Do you think she was genuinely saying, "I'll beat your child as I choose" or was she saying "if you are going to let your child bite people and do nothing, then I will defend myself as I see fit"

I think it's pretty clear it's the latter. But OP is too busy portraying DS as a victim, so prefers to go with the first interpretation. Suits her better to make MIL some kind of monster rather than address it's her child that attacked someone while OP did nothing in the build up. Even says MIL was at fault there.

She said that we can parent how we want, but she will discipline as she sees fit.

Fucksake - she doubled down?!
No WAY would she get a second chance to hit my child.
Tell her she won't be in a position to hand out what she terms "discipline" again, as she will never again have unsupervised access to her grandchild.

And don't let your husband over-ride you.
Your 6 year old child isn't an experiment in whether MiL can keep her temper or not. Show him he can rely on you to protect him.

That is quite different to what you originally said. Really all you can do is wait a few days and see how things settle. The incident was obviously very upsetting for all of you.

Your last paragraph isn't really true though, is it? If your MIL hit your husband when he was a child, and it had such a severe effect that he feels she's unsafe, why on earth are you allowing a close relationship between her and your son? You obviously don't actually believe she is unsafe. I would think carefully here because as your son grows up he is going to struggle socially and that will make things difficult for you as parents as well. You may be very grateful for a loving grandma in his life, and for the respite that could give you. Don't cut her off as a punishment for this one incident. Only do it if you genuinely believe he is at risk from her.

I can easily see someone reacting to being bitten by a six year old by lashing out. I also think it depends on how the MIL meant her comment. If I were in her situation I can see that she might not be able to agree that she wouldn't 'discipline' him like that in future.

It will be interesting if he ever bites her again.

One of my kids was tormented at a playgroup by another kid. (The kids were 5 - overseas so kids go to school later than in the UK). The Mum was useless. He kid was extremely hard work and I have no doubt she was overwhelmed. However the kid constantly hurt my kid. I suspected it was because my kid was so placid and never retaliated. Eventually my kid did retaliate and shoved the kid away making him cry. The kid never bothered my child again. I obviously told my kid off but privately I thought it was understandable. My kid was never physical again bar a bit of shoving and snatching etc with siblings over the years.

I've not read all the posts but has anyone mentioned the thread posted by a Mum who hit her 5 year old on the head because they were being naughty. Most of the replies were sympathetic to the Mum. Mumsnet is so biased.

Agree with all of this. Particularly bad look OP to say your MIL ‘knows he gets over excited’ or words to that effect. I’d be interested to see if the biting stops after this incident tbqh. Most people would be horrified to see a child of five still biting and sorry but your platitudes re we’re trying to stop him hurting people just don’t sound v convincing. This needs to be your urgent top priority. You are far too blasé about him biting people

Obviously it's not OK to hit a child. However I have a question.
Did she hit him on the back to make him let go? Or had he bitten and was moving away and she lashed out?
I think I can understand the first, as it would be a shock reaction and needing to get him off her. The second doesn't get any sympathy from me.

She said that we can parent how we want, but she will discipline as she sees fit.

He's not her child to decide that

I do not need to go into the details of the interventions put in place by us, the SENCO or his support worker. We are very much aware that DS biting or hurting people is unacceptable and we are doing everything we can to stop that. He has made major improvements but he is not entirely there yet, no. I do not consider MIL hitting him as unprovoked.

When I say MIL is well aware that he gets over excited quickly it's because after seeing her multiple times a week for 6 years and her regularly helping with childcare as a toddler, she knows how he behaves. She was encouraging him to play and he got over excited. He bit her, she shouted, he jumped up to move away and she hit him hard as he was moving towards DH.

I know how reflexes work. It genuinely could've happened without a thought. I still would've been upset but I could come to terms with that. My issue is that she implied she would do this again. That is making a decision to hurt a child. DH is going to speak to her this afternoon as he's popping in to fix something for her.

Amazing how many people without autistic children think they're experts on it! You don't just "sort" an autistic kids out! It's extremely hard work being a parent, a parent of an autistic child more so. All the ignorant judging of others just makes it even harder!

To be honest whether it was a reflex or not is a moot point

The fact is she is not repentant and has said she will do it again. She will discipline your child the way she sees fit.

And that for me is a childcare no

Doesn't matter what your rules are for your child. If an adult is refusing to stick to them then they can't be trusted with the child.

Make sure he apologises to her before he does anything else. Get him to tell your MIL you are working on the biting and what the plan is to stop it. Most grandparents would be shocked and upset by the idea of a 5 year old biting, even with autism taken in to account. You need to accept that others won’t be as accepting of biting as you are.

My issue is that she implied she would do this again. That is making a decision to hurt a child.

That's what you choose to hear. It deflects from the fact that you let all this happen, then didn't like someone else defending themselves from your child's attack. She implied nothing other than that she wouldn't just sit there if her child was biting. And you know it. But don't like it. So let's make her the bad guy, right.

You couldn't be more clear that you think she caused him to bite her. A woman who's looked after him for 6 years and never caused a problem before. While both his parents sat there. And did zip.

I had full sympathy for your MIL up to the point where she said she'll discipline as she sees fit. I can see how someone could lash out in shock at being bitten. There are frequent posts on MN by parents who have done similar and feel bad about it. What makes it difficult is what she said afterwards. If you are there she shouldn't really need to be disciplining him at all. I hope she and your DH can come to a reasonable conclusion when they speak later.

She hit him on the back?

The fact she isn't remorseful and didn't apologise is alarming

I would definitely cut MIL some slack in this situation. The hitting was perhaps a reflex response to pain, not something undertaken with a cool head, or representative of her approach to looking after children in general. After the incident MIL was probably feeling judged and made some defensive comments. Wait and see what she has to say when feelings have calmed down. If you possibly can, keep her onside.

@HaveTheDayOff

please do have the day off!!

'don't give an abuser access to your child'

FFS

it would be mean not to visit her again. It is clear that he shouldn't be left unsupervised with her as she isn't as attuned to how you handle events like this.

I don't think it's surprising that she lashed out if it shocked and hurt her. The "doubling down?" defensive reaction to you criticising her, maybe? Did you express any sympathy that she had been hurt?

Let your DH talk to her and make sure that you don't leave them alone.

How is it not abusive to repeatedly physically abuse your child, and then start on your grandchild?