To be fucked off about nursery fees

[Ladyrantalot]

So, here we are, DH and I slaving away full time, paying a grand a month for nursery until our ‘free’ hours kicked in after 2 years. Put off having DC2 because we didn’t have the money to have 2 in nursery at once.

By comparison, my sis who doesn’t work and hasn’t since she quit her job on her first maternity leave 4 years ago, also has 30 free hours despite the fact she’s at home, has no intention of working in the next few years and doesn’t need it 🤷🏼‍♀️

AIBU to find the way us full-time-but-just-over-the-threshold workers are treated fucking maddening? We’re mugs aren’t we? And other people have the nerve to tell us we’re ‘lucky to be working’, yeah right.

The irony is you are expecting people to fund your 'lifestyle choice' by providing 30 hours free childcare 🙄

Wow you really are a piece of work op.

Most definitely, however I do think it’s unfair that council run nurseries flat out don’t let two year olds in; even if their parents are willing to pay.

And I’m not sure if the way the hours are allocated has changed or not since my eldest went to nursery - my youngest isn’t there yet - but we had to apply for a nursery and THEN they told us how our 30h would be allocated. I got 1-5:30; year round. I’m a teacher. I asked for 9-3 year round (and I could pay for wraparound) was told no. My friend - who worked PT, year round, 5 half days per week including one at weekend - got what I wanted. She had asked for year round. The kids went to the same nursery. They wouldn’t let us swap as they were grouped by age and there was approx 6 months between them age wise. So my friend was using full days she didn’t need; or not sending her kid at all; scrabbling for care all sunmer; and I had to have family members diving all over the place and swapping shifts to cover mornings, yet had childcare I didn’t need all summer.

Why should she?

OP is just coming across more and more bitter. Perhaps stepping away from the internet and spending time with the child who goes to full time nursery might bring more joy than arguing with strangers.

I’m headed out with my family, who were raised with zero help from the government but who still believe every child should be given the opportunity provided by free education.

Bitterness and jealousy really are ugly traits.

“Waste of life to be honest…”

Really sorry to hear you feel like this, OP. This is making a bit more sense now; I can easily see how someone who felt like they were wasting their life could end up being so resentful of other people and their children, even those in worse situations than themselves.

Maybe a change of job could help - if you were doing something that gave you more of a sense of purpose (even if it didn’t earn you more money) would you still feel like your life was a waste?

Whatever you end up doing, I don’t think comparing yourself and your children to your sister and hers will be very helpful for you personally or for your family generally. Objectively you know she’s going to be worse off in the long run, and tbh I can’t help being a bit sad for her children that their aunt doesn’t seem to understand why they deserve a variety of early years learning opportunities too. Those hours, as many PPs have patiently explained over and over again, aren’t childcare provision to free up a parent for work: they’re education provision to give the children the foundational skills they will need to be ready to get the most out of school. I would never want my niece or nephew deprived of vital early educational opportunities, even though my brother is a total arsehole! I really am struggling to understand how someone would want that deprivation for their own niece or nephew. I’m pleased for your sister’s children that they get those hours, because they deserve the learning opportunities they’ll get from them.

We’re all under increased stress because of the COL crisis, which you’ve referred to a couple of times, so is clearly a pressure on you. It’s a significant pressure for most of us here too - it’s totally crap for those of us who were just about managing this time last year but are finding it much harder now, but it’s worse for people on actual low incomes.

Raised stress levels aren’t always great for patience or logical thinking, and can even cause depression. It might be worth seeing if you can access any support - I haven’t a clue what services are available where you live, but maybe you could access a mindfulness course or some CBT to help you deal specifically with this feeling that your life is a waste. That can’t be a nice feeling to carry around with you. If I’m really honest with myself, I think I’d probably be quite aggressive and vicious too if I was living in that same mindset.

Why don’t you just get a better job??? Are you not capable or not willing or what?

Why should anyone help you/fund you/change fees/pay tax or anything so that your life is easier?!

We all make different choices and prioritise different things. Feel free to quit your job and have the same lifestyle as your sister, if you think it's so great.

I bet you won't though. You're just looking for a reason to be angry at your sister.

A lovely, balanced, patient and in my opinion helpful post.

The irony is OP you get more state help than your sister does because your kids are eligible for 30 hrs and your sister's kids are only eligible for 15

I think that one of the main reasons the government offers the free 15 hours to single income households is that it helps level the playing field a little.

Think of it this way, say that there is a 3 year old called Tom. Tom's mum is a SAHM with no support network that doesn't have a good education or any interest in working, let alone having a career as she has depression.

Tom has spent the first 3 years of his life being isolated from other children at home as his mum doesn't feel up to attending playgroups or any other form of socialising.

In this situation Tom is being deprived of spending time with peers and if it continues to 4/5 then the disparity could be very significant.

At 3 years old Tom attends nursery for 15 hours a week. It helps improve his mum's mental health and she is able to parent him better when they are together. He also benefits from spending time with other pre-schoolers and builds some basic social skills ahead of school.

The free hours benefit society because Tom will be less likely to put a strain on the education system as he will be less behind his peers. This gives him confidence and a better chance of growing into a functioning member of society with a good education.

I say all of this as a person that worked her way up a career ladder for 10 years before having children. I gave up my job after mat leave but I'm unlikely to claim those free hours as I'm not struggling to socialise my DS. I still support SAHM's being offered this option as it helps deprived children.

I contribute, she doesn’t contribute a penny. So it isn’t ‘ironic’ at all. If I had paid £5, and got £3 back, that’s less fair than somebody who has paid nothing at all and gets £1.50.

Maybe making it fairly means tested for everyone would be best?

Making nursery costs proportionate to your household income, and make 30h compulsory (unless you opt out and homeschool)

Say, you pay 20% of your household income for childcare. Higher earners pay more, lower earners pay less.

And then allow employees to do salary sacrifice childcare vouchers which can be purchased by any parent (make or female) from the time of their child’s birth. Or allow them to spread the cost over the first 10 years of a child’s life; taken off earnings at source (similar to student loans)

Why do you expect life to be fair between you and your sister? You are adults and you should have grown out of whinging ‘it’s not faaaair’ when you have different things.

You can't continue to weigh it up based on jwho contributed what and therefore is owed x. That isn't how it works in reality. As many posters have stated the value of good quality early years education is immeasurable and should be accessible to all at a much younger age at a subsidised cost, similar to other countries. If you want to be angry at someone blame the government for the current poor system which just isn't fit for purpose.

Yanbu at all.
The hard working people with morals and use the benefit system for what it should be,to support people when they need it,rather than an entitlement to sit around on their bums all day,always get but the hardest.
I feel for you,it is so very hard.💐

We need people to make this 'lifestyle choice' in order to keep society functioning. There are major economic implications from having an ageing population. We need a steady steam of children in society so we have a steady steam of adults who will pay taxes to cover pensions/public services/health services that older people use. We need nurses/doctors/shop workers/civil servants to staff and run services that older people use.*

The usual complete crock of shit.

There is no shortage of humans and never will be. We don't need to subsidize the production of more. Sensible changes to immigration laws worldwide will suffice.

What we need is for shiftless, unstable and ill-prepared people to refrain from procreating at the expense of the rest of us.

Or blame the people who keep having kids they aren't fit to rear.

I agree with you.
You could do what a lot of people do and apparently it’s not even ‘benefit fraud’ according to mumsnet. Claim as a single parent and send your husband off to live with his mum. He can still stay over as much as he likes, go on holiday with you, collect the kids from school etc as long as only your name are on the bills! Result!

1. our government has no interest in reforming immigration laws.

2. your ignorance is astounding.

Personal responsibility doesn’t exist on MN. Repeat after me: blame the government. Blame the government. Blame the government.

Lying, arrogant, ignorant, not to mention says lol after every argument 🤣 embarrassing!!

Migration laws would help, yeah. We don’t have too few people in the world; we have too few people in a few parts of the world and too many people in many.

The thing is; most economic migrants are NOT living in the countries with massively high birth rates.

Most people in developing countries with a surplus of young people will never have the financial option to migrate, no matter how encouraging the situation is.

So yes; we absolutely do need to encourage more migrants to move here. But we also need to encourage families to have more children who will grow into the next workforce. I don’t necessarily think that universal help is the way to go - instead; I do believe they need to do more to reverse the decreasing birth rate among professional women. And a good way to do that is to allow a more flexible approach to paying for childcare (a “parenting loan” like a student loan might be an idea?)

I'd rather pay taxes to support migration here than to support irresponsible Brits having kids in toxic circumstances, if we're talking about future labour needs.

Actually I’m with you to a point OP. I think the way the system is structured is incredibly unfair on working parents and on nursery staff. Although as loads of people have pointed out, your SIL shouldn’t be getting 30 hours if she doesn’t work, only 15.

I get all the arguments in favour of all children having subsidised pre-school attendance from 3, and I don’t disagree with them at all. But the early years hours scheme is badly underfunded by the government, so nurseries have to claw back on the money they lose on providing funded hours in order to break even. They do that by increasing fees even higher on the non-funded hours. And that’s paid for by parents with children in nursery aged under 3.

So working parents of under 3s have exorbitant childcare bills until they reach the point the funded hours kick in (and even then, the funding doesn’t help that much because it’s term time only and the nurseries have to charge for consumables). And at the same time, nursery/pre-school staff work their arses off for absolutely insulting pay, given their skills and responsibility. The only people who get any kind of ‘freebie’ from the system are SAHPs.

I suspect it is structured this way quite deliberately because this government doesn’t really believe women - or mothers, at least - belong in the workforce. And doesn’t value caring work done by a mostly female workforce (nursery staff).

I have no objection in principle to the children of SAHPs receiving funded pre-school hours, but it shouldn’t be provided to the detriment of working parents and nursery staff.