Forced fun

[Floofydawg]

Here's the situation - am an over 50 woman in a wider team where I am the oldest. Most are in their 30's. We have a team day in the office in a couple of weeks and a meal has been arranged for after work, at our own expense. Not ideal but I'll go along and be a team player. Where my issue is, is that there's an activity after the meal which has been arranged which I've declined to go to as 1. it's not my thing and 2. it's all at own expense and quite frankly I don't want to spend money on something I don't want to do. The person organising has put pressure on me multiple times to attend the activity, this morning in front of the wider team on a call. This has really put my back up to the point I said I've already told you am coming for the meal but not interested in the activity so will be leaving after dinner.

AIBU and not a team player? Honestly sometimes I just think I'm too old for this shit and I can't be bothered. Am sure they all think I'm a grumpy old cow but am past caring.

We had a national branch meet up for the first time post-lockdowns last summer, with an overnight in between the days. Limited instructions were provided, and just times, dates and location..

So I booked my own hotel, made plans for my dinner involving my favourite restaurant and a book, and enjoyed the peace in a city I've rarely been to. Only it turned out there was a mandatory meal and pre-dinner drinking session that I then failed to attend and was asked why I wasn't there (with a very bad grace).

They then announced an enforced dancing game at the end of the second day. When it began, I grabbed my bags and left. That led to questions from my bosses as to why I did that.

I don't dance. Ever. It's humiliating for me. I didn't dance at my own damn wedding because I am an adult and I get to choose what I do with my body. This session absolutely humiliated me because I had asked not to participate and got all the "it's just a bit of fun", "go on, you'll be fine" shite from the organiser.

I fed back to them afterwards about how exclusionary that session was - no alternative options for anyone who was disabled or injured, no consideration for those who don't do forced fun or dancing, no scope for a reasonable discussion with the organisers about why someone might not want or be able to participate.... They never replied. But we didn't do anything like it in this years meet up thank god.

Fuck these people who like to use embarrassment against others.

Tell them if it’s that important it should be in work time with the coming paying.

I maybe a grumpy old cow too though!!

What happened to mumsnet staple "that isn't going to work for me". Job done!

Floofy, who is saying the meal is effectively compulsory?

If it's your boss, have you asked why they expect you to pay for something outside work time?

If it's the annoying team member, I'd ignore them and not go at all.

Are they especially keen that you attend the activity because it's cheaper if you go - ie there are then enough to get a group rate or something? Or are they just one of those annoying people who thinks everyone should be sociable because they are?

I agree :)

I had to go on an outward bound leadership for 4 days many years ago - which involved a forced march over Exmoor to 'find' a downed plane that had a nuclear device on board. We had to sleep overnight in a real barn with no ablutions whilst the Euro 96 finals were on and some food and water and dried food left for us. A small subgroup decided enough was enough and formed our own revolutionary cell that decided both to disobey orders and go on a hike to a pub 4 miles away, where we got drunk and had a hearty meal. There were about 30 odd folks in the group, and only 5 joined us - despite our leader giving a rousing speech to resist.

The next day we had infected the group with our revolutionary zeal and when the leaders arrived in the morning they faced a mutiny which they quelled by praising the revolt and having a discussion about group dynamics and a morning off to sit about in the sunshine. Sod the nuclear device - it went unfound in the end ! RESIST !

@lieselotte it's just the way it was positioned when looking for dates. 'We're having an all day workshop with evening social.' There were dates where some people couldn't do the evening and the organiser went out of his way to ensure that everyone's evenings were free before agreeing the date. Then we were only told weeks later that it was self funded. It's just expected, and that really pisses me off.

It's in the evening; no one can force you to attend, and expect you to fund it yourself. Just say 'no thank you ' .

Doing this shit at your own expense is the reddest of lines for me. No company should ever be mandating (or even encouraging) employees to spend their own money on work socialising.

I despise "organised fun" activities and some of the escape room/axe throwing/outward bound stories in this thread give me the hives. However I'd be perfectly happy to go for a few drinks with some of the better colleagues I've had, even out of office hours. But if it's an official work outing (as opposed to informal drinks organised as friends), someone else needs to be paying or I'm not going.

Luckily I've never worked in places where any of these things were commonplace but I had no issue saying no to things I didn't want to do without offering an explanation. "I don't want to" will suffice as a reason for not wanting to do stupid team bonding activities.

OP, if I were you I'd bail on the meal as well as the activity. You're older and you say you're higher paid so I assume you're one of the more senior people in this group - it's actually very important for you to set an example and show less inexperienced team members that it's OK to say no if they don't want to do out-of-hours socialising, and that they SHOULD say no if it's at their own expense.

I agree that it's important to organise and resist paying for yourselves outside office hours. Whatever next, they start to choose your holiday destination ? It doesn't seem very different to me.

OP, if I were you I'd bail on the meal as well as the activity. You're older and you say you're higher paid so I assume you're one of the more senior people in this group - it's actually very important for you to set an example and show less inexperienced team members that it's OK to say no if they don't want to do out-of-hours socialising, and that they SHOULD say no if it's at their own expense

I agree. It isn't right that it was portrayed as a work thing and then it became clear you had to pay for your own meal.

I would simply say you didn't like being pressurised over the evening activity, you are not happy about having to pay for a work social in any event, and you think there should be a paid lunch instead.

I have gone to work meals I've had to pay for myself but they were (a) lunches and (b) voluntary.

'We're having an all day workshop with evening social.' There were dates where some people couldn't do the evening and the organiser went out of his way to ensure that everyone's evenings were free before agreeing the date. Then we were only told weeks later that it was self funded. It's just expected, and that really pisses me off.

OP, does your employer have form for this?

I'm wondering how does one politely decline for mandatory activities? Or how to suggest something better in turn with tact

I'm wondering how does one politely decline for mandatory activities?

I'm also wondering if the organiser will attempt to reschedule the event if anyone backs out?

Oh yeah, it happens about once a quarter.

At the risk of drip feeding, my job requires a fair amount of client entertaining (obviously paid for) which can involve being out very late. I don't get that time back. Obviously this is part of my job, and I knew this. But the extra evening stuff, which is not part of my job and not paid for, kind of tips me over the edge.

I'm wondering how does one politely decline for mandatory activities? Or how to suggest something better in turn with tact

But if it's outside work hours, and employees are expected to pay for it themselves, it cannot be mandatory. The actual team day in working hours is different of course.

At the risk of drip feeding, my job requires a fair amount of client entertaining (obviously paid for) which can involve being out very late. I don't get that time back. Obviously this is part of my job, and I knew this. But the extra evening stuff, which is not part of my job and not paid for, kind of tips me over the edge

It makes no difference. Work is work and private life is private life.

If you have to do client entertaining, that is an integral part of your role, and recognised by your remuneration and benefits.

Having to go out for a "jolly" with colleagues (which isn't even paid for) is not part of your job.

Maybe go for the meal this time (but make clear you are only paying for your own share).

But next time this happens, email upfront and ask if the evening event is self-funded and if so you decline. If it's paid for you'll see if you can fit it in. You might find more polite wording :)

I'm 33 and if this was work related and bring pressured to attend you bet my ass I'd be asking for it to be paid for. The cheek of some work places! We work to get paid, not to spend it on crap that doesn't pay the bills.

I had a co-worker once who refused any social outings. She said she didn’t want to socialise with work colleagues. But everyone liked her still. It didn’t effect her popularity at all.

At the risk of drip feeding, my job requires a fair amount of client entertaining (obviously paid for) which can involve being out very late. I don't get that time back. Obviously this is part of my job, and I knew this. But the extra evening stuff, which is not part of my job and not paid for, kind of tips me over the edge.

OP, I quite understand the need for client entertaining (paid for), but is this the first time your employer has effectively forced staff into a self-funded activity which is not optional?

yeah this.

Honestly, I’d make a point of going above the head of the person who is organizing the shit show and complain. Say that you had already felt pressurized to go to the dinner, and then they put you on the spot in front of everyone on the zoom call. You felt embarrassed and didn’t want to have to come right out and spell out that with the cost of living, every spare penny is accounted for at the moment and you can’t even really afford the dinner. Not only is it something you don’t really want to do as you don’t have anything in common with anyone else due to age demographic, you literally resent being pushed into spending money you don’t have to spare to do so. You don’t mind at all being a team player while at work, but not in your own time and at your own expense.

You don't even need to say you can't afford the dinner. You could just say that if this event is work-related, then it should be in work time and at work's expense, and that no employees should be expected to give up their own time and their own money for it. That would also help the other staff who are being forced into this, and who might be reluctant to object in case their cards are marked as a result.

YANBU - in fact you've 'gone the extra' mile by agreeing to the meal. My workplace had an event recently where we were invited for a cream tea. I asked if there would be 'proper food' on offer and seems I was being awkward. The event was 8 miles away at 2:30 till 4pm....so neither lunch or tea (for me). I don't like 'sickly' cakes like cupcakes or fondant fancies. There were known traffic jams getting into venue so it would take an hours drive there and back...it was also indoors in essentially a cafe in August. I declined. Whilst it wasn't directly my money it was £45 allocated to me from CEO as a thank you for Covid id working. Management had chosen how to spend the money. I said I'd rather meet up in whetherspoons for an early eve meal and a drink.
People seem to have a real problem accepting that people are different. No Sarah, ten pin bowling will not 'be a laugh'; yes really, I don't want to watch Mama Mia/DirtyDancing in a field.....and I sure ain't gonna pay for it.
If Bossy continues to hound you in front of colleagues play her at her own game. Do you know what Bossy I was happy to come to the meal as there's a few people here (not you) that I'd quite enjoy their company but it's starting to feel like 'work' so if it's not good enough I'll opt out.
Grrr

You are not being unreasonable. I hate those type of things too. I worked for a company a few years ago that was all about "disruption" in the marketing sense. We had to be wacky, and had weekly "huddles", with icebreakers that once had us galloping around the office pretending to be horses. I was in my late forties at the time, and many of the other were in their twenties. To be honest I hated that type of sh*t even when I was that age. I left the company in the end. Very nice people, but not for me. I find workplace "fun" exhausting when it's contrived. (Always up for a spontaneous giggle though, I'm not a complete misery!!)