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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what stops you voting for Labour?

1000 replies

Winniethepoohandtiggertoo · 06/03/2023 09:21

No agenda I’m just interested as Kier is on LBC this morning…

For me it’s the TWAW magical thinking, and not being convinced they would prioritise average earners, which I want to happen.

OP posts:
GPTec1 · 09/03/2023 09:25

15 years ago, where I am, people paid well in excess of £12000 per year for full time childcare. That cost hasn't changed much today. It was a lot then. And it's still a lot now. But theres not been a huge rise

You are going against the Govt's own figures on this (ONS), which say that on average its risen £200 per month over 10 years and bear in mind there was less help 10 years ago & most importantly, it is very difficult to get.

Phos · 09/03/2023 09:26

Their education policies. Or some of them anyway.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 09:27

GPTec1 · 09/03/2023 09:25

15 years ago, where I am, people paid well in excess of £12000 per year for full time childcare. That cost hasn't changed much today. It was a lot then. And it's still a lot now. But theres not been a huge rise

You are going against the Govt's own figures on this (ONS), which say that on average its risen £200 per month over 10 years and bear in mind there was less help 10 years ago & most importantly, it is very difficult to get.

I'm just telling you how much it cost then. Which isn't hugely different to now. I couldn't afford to work full time back then because of the cost of child care.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 09:30

In fact, thinking back, when I had my second child, I didn't go back to work until he was 3, because the childcare costs meant it was just not worth it.

GPTec1 · 09/03/2023 09:30

WiIson · 09/03/2023 09:23

I don't think labour will change this. I think they will make it worse.

Perhaps you are right & i certainly believe in giving any Govt the chance to improve things but by the time of the next GE, they would have been in for over 14 years & so far, by any measure, everything is worse than in 2010.

I think that is long enough.

Obviously, if things turn around in the next 12 to 18 months, then i will reconsider.

It was the Truss thing that did it for me, £65bn lost in just a few weeks, pensions still have not made good the losses and probably never will.

Just think what £65bn could do for the economy?

WiIson · 09/03/2023 09:37

Will have to wait and see GPTec1. I'm not holding my breath on anything. At the moment it feels like a labour vote would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Things are shit right now. But there is room for it to get worse. And for me that's what a labour vote feels like at this moment in time.

beguilingeyes · 09/03/2023 11:30

Lord help us. Do you think that Starmer would put his brother in the House Of Lords, or enoble the son of a KGB agent.
The corruption in this current Tory is off the charts. Boris's gang needs to be gone.
If they had.people like Rory Stewart or Ken Clark in charge I wouldn't mind, but the likes of Dominic Raab and Liz Truss are incapable.

KnittedCardi · 09/03/2023 11:41

beguilingeyes · 09/03/2023 11:30

Lord help us. Do you think that Starmer would put his brother in the House Of Lords, or enoble the son of a KGB agent.
The corruption in this current Tory is off the charts. Boris's gang needs to be gone.
If they had.people like Rory Stewart or Ken Clark in charge I wouldn't mind, but the likes of Dominic Raab and Liz Truss are incapable.

Maybe not, but Labour are actually more prolific in enobling peers.

David Cameron and Tony Blair have created life peerages at high rates, at 40.5 and 35.7 peerages per year respectively. Conservative Prime Ministers have created on average 21 life peers per year in office, Labour Prime Ministers an average of 27 per year

KnittedCardi · 09/03/2023 11:45

WiIson · 09/03/2023 09:27

I'm just telling you how much it cost then. Which isn't hugely different to now. I couldn't afford to work full time back then because of the cost of child care.

Agreed. Perhaps it is where you are in the country. 15 years ago, I was working three days a week, and earning about £30k pro-rata. After taking childcare into account, I only cleared £150 a month. So I gave up and have been a SAHP ever since.

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 12:00

WiIson · 09/03/2023 09:22

This is such a middle class response. Where the heck do ordinary people get 4k from? Particularly in the cost of living crises. Do people think that everyone has thousands of pounds available to just buy a compliant car?

Xenia’s not an ordinary person, she’s very wealthy. In any event, you can’t argue with the economics - buy a £4k car, make the money back in less than a year and be in profit for several years thereafter by not paying congestion charges. Do you think people have thousands of pounds available to pay congestion charges?

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:02

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 12:00

Xenia’s not an ordinary person, she’s very wealthy. In any event, you can’t argue with the economics - buy a £4k car, make the money back in less than a year and be in profit for several years thereafter by not paying congestion charges. Do you think people have thousands of pounds available to pay congestion charges?

No I don't think they do have thousands of pounds for the charges.

So what do you think will happen to those people that don't have the money for either a new car, or the charges?

It's not difficult to work it out.

Think.

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 12:04

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:02

No I don't think they do have thousands of pounds for the charges.

So what do you think will happen to those people that don't have the money for either a new car, or the charges?

It's not difficult to work it out.

Think.

You think. For just one nanosecond and do the maths. Nobody has to buy a new car, there are loads of compliant cars on the used market, some of them considerably cheaper than the example I quoted.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:06

Post up links of these super cheap compliant cars then. I'm interested.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:08

Ah I see you jumped on the word 'new'. I didn't mean brand new. I meant: replace, or alternatively new to them.

And ordinary people don't have two / three/ four thousand pounds knocking around.

Some people really don't live in the real world. Yourself included.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:09

But do post the links of these cheap compliant vehicles anyway.

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 12:12

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:09

But do post the links of these cheap compliant vehicles anyway.

No point. You’ll just argue that anything that costs more than tuppence is unaffordable. And you’ve obviously never heard of finance, which is how most people pay for their cars.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:14

You cant post them because there aren't any.

And you refuse to recognise the poverty that some people already live in.

Because you can afford a car you think everyone else can.

Blinkered.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:15

Not everyone can get, or afford finance btw.

Something else you didn't know.

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 12:19

WiIson · 09/03/2023 12:14

You cant post them because there aren't any.

And you refuse to recognise the poverty that some people already live in.

Because you can afford a car you think everyone else can.

Blinkered.

Do you want to read that to yourself? Why would anyone worry about congestion charges if they couldn’t afford a car?

beguilingeyes · 09/03/2023 12:33

KnittedCardi · 09/03/2023 11:41

Maybe not, but Labour are actually more prolific in enobling peers.

David Cameron and Tony Blair have created life peerages at high rates, at 40.5 and 35.7 peerages per year respectively. Conservative Prime Ministers have created on average 21 life peers per year in office, Labour Prime Ministers an average of 27 per year

How many were they related to? The number isn't the issue.

Grantanow · 09/03/2023 12:55

If I lived in a constituency where it mattered I wouldn't hesitate to vote Labour to get rid of this rotten Tory mess. But Labour has no chance here. I would vote Lib Dem but I don't trust them not to join a Tory coalition like they did before (and I voted for them then).

MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2023 12:58

beguilingeyes · 09/03/2023 11:30

Lord help us. Do you think that Starmer would put his brother in the House Of Lords, or enoble the son of a KGB agent.
The corruption in this current Tory is off the charts. Boris's gang needs to be gone.
If they had.people like Rory Stewart or Ken Clark in charge I wouldn't mind, but the likes of Dominic Raab and Liz Truss are incapable.

The people you list are ex PMs and don’t have much sway. People predicting Johnson would wreck Windsor agreement but in the end he doesn’t have the party backing.

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 13:13

Grantanow · 09/03/2023 12:55

If I lived in a constituency where it mattered I wouldn't hesitate to vote Labour to get rid of this rotten Tory mess. But Labour has no chance here. I would vote Lib Dem but I don't trust them not to join a Tory coalition like they did before (and I voted for them then).

I live in what used to be the safest Tory seat in the country. According to the latest polling data it has a 73% chance of turning red in the next election. I’m sure as hell going to do my bit to help that happen.

GPTec1 · 09/03/2023 13:52

Listening to an Army General today on BBC R4, Afghans who helped us during that conflict are stuck in camps in Pakistan etc, those here living in Hotels for 1 or 2 years, an Afghan General, trained at Sandhurst, gave up waiting to be allowed into the UK and is now in the USA, Afghans entitled to be here, using the x ch small boats because are taking years to resettle.

Then there is the shambles that is HS2, further delays to "save money" Euston postponed, construction costs aren't going down!!!

Just two examples of Tory incompetence.

Going back to @Wilson and EV's & compliant ULEZ vehicles, you ve made good points but who has removed the incentives that were on low emission vehicles? who has failed to improve air quality in our towns and cities?

ULEZ's are used by cities to raise money, not to improve air quality & who has slashed council budgets, whilst at the same hiking Council Taxes which poorer people cannot afford but earn too much for any help.

The ban on sales of fossil fuel vehicles is going to make the shambles that is congestion charging look like a tea party, 80% of the country cannot afford a EV vehicle nor the taxes (on conventional cars) that will come to make us buy one.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 13:55

Blossomtoes · 09/03/2023 12:19

Do you want to read that to yourself? Why would anyone worry about congestion charges if they couldn’t afford a car?

People who already own cars but cannot afford to replace them? People who are on minimum wage and use their car to work. Like care workers for example.

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