To ask what stops you voting for Labour?

[Winniethepoohandtiggertoo]

No agenda I’m just interested as Kier is on LBC this morning…

For me it’s the TWAW magical thinking, and not being convinced they would prioritise average earners, which I want to happen.

Yes and it’s clear they have believers such as Lammy and co with strong views that override women’s rights in favour of TRAs

I don’t think Starmer will do a clear out before the GE as he did with antisemitism.

Sorry to quote again but if you read both TWAW lobby groups, you can't put a fag paper between them.
Both say a man can be a woman with the same rights as a biological woman and should be celebrated as such and both said this on IWD :(

Additional NHS gender clinics have been set up since 2020, there on in every region of the country and whilst not as awful as the Tavistock clinic, still offer all the services required to turn a man into a "woman" including a Gender certificate without surgery, so self ID via a clinic.

IMHO the Tories are just better at keeping the lid on debate in their party but both will remove womens rights & right now the Tories are doing it by the bucket load e.g avg childcare p.a is £15k, Gender pay gap highest ever, meaning women work for less and or have to stay at home - Progress hey?

I read the comments underneath and one said is this a reCatcha robot test 😂

But seriously how can I vote for the Labour party who will not stand up for my rights as a woman.

I remember years ago my grandma saying if you are feckless, criminal or here illegally, the labour party will fight your corner.

Now, in this day and age, the mantra should be if you are a woman, the labour party will not fight your corner.

Additional NHS gender clinics have been set up since 2020, there on in every region of the country and whilst not as awful as the Tavistock clinic, still offer all the services required to turn a man into a "woman" including a Gender certificate without surgery, so self ID via a clinic

Evidence of this please.

but if you read both TWAW lobby groups, you can't put a fag paper between them

It’s in the name, I’m not surprised they both have similar views in the same way say cat lobby groups would push for cat related policy.

They’re just a group of voters who have attached the party of choice to their name. They won’t run past their comms with the party and it will be their own views.

Imo it’s better to look at where the parties are heading and who makes up the strongest views and what they are. It’s easy to see with Labour that MPs like Lammy are not on the side of women and Starmer can’t make clear statements either. They are hide bound by TRAs

Nearly all western countries were hit by this ideology at roughly the same time. What I’m looking for is who will reverse from that position v worsen it. Labour will do the latter, Cons are finally showing reverse.

Having lived in Wales in the past, under a Labour government, I can categorically say they aren't fit to run a bath, never mind a country.

Cons are finally showing reverse.

They’re saying what people want to hear. In every respect their policies damage women, they do nothing to improve the lives of women and children. Talk’s cheap.

At least they know what a woman is !

Plus Starmer and Labour are already telling people what they think.

Rights hoarding dinosaurs. People who want Labour to win might wave it away for whatever reason. No chance here. They can take a hike.

Nearly all western countries were hit by this ideology at roughly the same time. What I’m looking for is who will reverse from that position v worsen it. Labour will do the latter, Cons are finally showing reverse

In what way?
Some conservatives have said the right noises but on policy? Don't see it.

They ve an 76 seat majority, they could remove/reform the GRA but this is not in their plans.

Being able and accepted to change your gender is alive and kicking under this Govt.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/#:~:text=GDCs%20have%20a%20multidisciplinary%20team,typical%20of%20your%20gender%20identity

Rights hoarding dinosaurs was Lammy. Not Starmer. Not the Labour Party. One MP with the same view as Tory MP Caroline Nokes.

One thing that’s evident from hanging around on FWR is how Starmer is perceived on this issue. Weak and a fence sitter. Not just my views but similar from left and right women.

Only those really wanting Labour to win would make make people wave it away.

Fine, their call, their party getting in supersedes this issue. But the arguments don’t convince.

I like Caroline Noakes, her recommendations on the menopause where totally rejected by the Tories, Labour would adopt them.

Rights hoarding dinosaurs. People who want Labour to win might wave it away for whatever reason

I am critical of both parties on TWAW, some posters appear to take one side without any evidence for their choice.

I also look at what the Cons have done already to womens rights e.g my children are older now but 10 years ago i was paying about £4k a year for childcare, the same amount now would be over £15k.
Effectively removing the parents right to work would have removed mine!
We have by far, the most expensive childcare in Europe.
Another right removed is the right to a single sex ward and to be treated by the gender of a HCP of your choice.

Tories are very clever in their messaging but on action, same old.

Don't be ridiculous. I went to school in this era and in my area like many others the choice was get on the bus to the grammar school or go to the secondary modern. Ten mile journeys to school were not remotely unusual.

To pretend that the area grammar school is even remotely comparable to Winchester just because it subsequently opted to go indy rather than comp is stretching reality to nonsense even by your standards.

Yes quite a few posters on this thread are speaking from experience inside the party. I'm one of them.

But casually dismissing anyone who outlines the issues on the doorstep as a red Tory, a Tory, thick, influenced by MSM was a great strategy at the last election so lets wheel it out again 🙄

The comparisons with Blair are relevant not because Blair was some kind of saint - he was never my choice as leader. They are because he was competent, galvanised massive support across the country and communicated effectively with the public. The latter two in particular remain an issue for Starmer.

In local elections in the last couple of years running up to 97 people were pretty clear on Labour's priorities which were around education and opportunity. As I said upthread - details of policy such as £X to build Y hospitals etc go in manifestos in the run up to an election. The principles and priorities and ideas are what need to be out there and clear in the voters' minds.

I was canvassing in target seats and nobody was in any doubt about Blair's key messages and priorities.

Labour's manifesto in 2019 included self id, its absolutely part of party policy from conference. Every senior Labour spokesman has either enthusiastically promoted it or avoided the subject whilst reminding us about "the most marginalised community in human existence".

To suggest otherwise is to ignore reality which is why very large numbers of long term party workers are struggling with continuing to support Labour at the moment. Even after the Scottish fiasco not one shadow minister can even bring themselves to open up a debate on finding a pragmatic solution - its still adherence to the mantra or nothing.

15 years ago, where I am, people paid well in excess of £12000 per year for full time childcare. That cost hasn't changed much today. It was a lot then. And it's still a lot now. But theres not been a huge rise.

When we have a date for the general election, go to hustings, ask questions on the issues that matter to you. If self ID is problematic for you, listen to the answers given by your candidates and vote for the one that fits your criteria best. If you feel really strongly about them then campaign for them on those issues.

We don't vote for a party, we vote for individuals who are affiliated to a group at that time. Vote for the person who best fits your values, if enough are on the same page that will become policy.

Obviously the Tories are best on the gender/sex issue. That matters to me but I vote in relation to the economy and personal taxation and on there I believe the Tories win hands down too. I am also against ULEZ coming out here thanks to Khan in rural outer london later this year which will cost me £4500 a year (so about £9k of before tax income). My Tory London council is opposing this so another reason to support the Tories who in so many areas now support the lower earner working man or woman

If congestion charging reaches your area surely it would be cheaper to buy a compliant car @Xenia? My Aygo is 3.5 years old and worth about £4k, if you bought it you’d be £500 in profit in the first year.

Yes I think I pretty much agree with this.

The Tories are getting rid of all fossil fuel cars within 7 years, i don't really see how that is helping lower earners.

You do know how much an average EV costs don't you?

We've highest personal tax rates since WW2, highest inflation of any comparable european country and one of the the highest energy costs in Europe.

Eurozone inflation 8.5%, France inflation 7%, Spain 6%. Even Italy the economic basket case of the EU is slightly lower.

& it will be mostly the low earners who are on NHS waiting lists.

With "help" like this, i'd rather not have Tory "Help"

This is such a middle class response. Where the heck do ordinary people get 4k from? Particularly in the cost of living crises. Do people think that everyone has thousands of pounds available to just buy a compliant car?

I don't think labour will change this. I think they will make it worse.

Appreciate the inside view.