To ask what stops you voting for Labour?

[Winniethepoohandtiggertoo]

No agenda I’m just interested as Kier is on LBC this morning…

For me it’s the TWAW magical thinking, and not being convinced they would prioritise average earners, which I want to happen.

TWAW

What's the £20,000? Not being goady, I just haven't heard of it.
Brexit has ruined this country. I don't mean the result, I mean the way it's made politics tribal and vindictive. People have picked a side and are too busy hurling abuse at the other side to get anything done.
The way UKIP has taken over the Tory party is worrying also.

But this site has a theme of attacking non left voters which is a shame. Chances are they’re not completely loyal voters and just want to discuss politics and constant insults (over many other threads) will turn them away more

This!

Apologies in advance but it follows on from our previous posts and specifically "sneering from the left" which you understandably don't like - hence the quote!!

What do you think about Sunak calling Starmer a "Leftie Lawyer" today in Parliament?

btw i bet he doesn't use that language outside of the commons.

imho its a disgrace, extremely divisive (as lizzie would say) & particularly sneery.

Judges decide on these cases, having heard the arguments not Lawyers who act within the law of the land, if Sunak doesn't like the current laws, he can change them.
Amazing Sunak thinks Lee Day have better legal knowledge than his Govt.

Scotland outperforms England in most areas of the NHS doesn't it?

Education is a shit show for sure.

Economy is difficult to say due to the way we account for revenue/ growth etc but from what I can find Scotland has the 4th highest GDP per capita of all UK regions (London, South East England and Eastern England above) and has lower poverty rate (19%) than England (22%) and Wales (23%), N.I are around the same as Scotland. We also still have funded tuition, free prescriptions, free bus travel for u22s and 60s, and free personal care for the elderly, housing costs are generally lower. So guess it depends on how you're measuring performance?

Your original claim of not having an agenda is looking somewhat dubious.

Well it's highly unlikely we will need to defend our borders anytime soon so what does it matter.

Their hatred of Jews

Their hatred of women (which for those at the back doesn’t include Trans women)

Inability to produce
properly expensed policies

Keirs lack of presence/hiding behind a woman during the pandemic trying to keep his nose clean

many of its MPs basically 70s union reps

Depends on what examples your looking for, I mean if you try to leave a proper far right group your life will be at risk so there's that. Matthew Collins and Christian Picciolini are examples of that.

Politically, Sue Grey is a good example. She's gone from a exemplar civil servant with integrity of the highest order to a treacherous snake in the blink of an eye.

Can't think of many in other areas, but then I can't think of many right wing personalities who have publicly changed their views. People who are right wing tend to stay right wing as far as I can see, people on the left start off there but I guess gradually drift right when something personally affects them.

For example, many on the left will be very pro-inclusive until being inclusive causes issues for them directly, then it becomes easier to switch.

Lol Kudo's for that answer!

Sue Grey isn’t a great example as it’s more of a query over her transparency and fairness than a left/right issue.

As for the others, they were part of ‘fringe’ extremist groups whereas I’m talking about mainstream politics and the wider public.

I mean I can name loads of people off the top of my head who have done or said one thing out of keeping with their lefty credentials and are now excommunicated, even deemed ‘fascist’.

I know a fair few adults who started off right wing back in the 80s/90s and are more relaxed now, although I would say centrist rather than left wing.

I agree about being ‘left wing until it affects you’ - if you saw the channel boats thread yesterday, so many posters were deeming anybody who doesn’t want boats full of unchecked men from patriarchal countries rocking up on our shores ‘right wing’ and ‘xenophobic’, yet I’m happy to wager those posters don’t live across the road from refugee ‘hotels’ or HMOs. Or anywhere near Kent. They expect other people to be fine with it however.

Equally on the benefit threads there seems to be an adamant refusal to see benefits for what they are - money taken from working people to give to people who are allegedly unable to work, not just because ‘it means I can’t pick my kids up from school’ or ‘I’m too depressed’. They seem to see it as a bottomless pit of money that exists in a vacuum and how much claimants get purely depends on how ‘nice’ people are. And that even questioning a person as to why they need the money is ‘degrading’. In essence they think anyone who says they need money should be given it for nothing, no questions asked, for any reason 🤷🏼‍♀️

People who are right wing tend to stay right wing as far as I can see, people on the left start off there but I guess gradually drift right when something personally affects them.

This kind of what I mean. Having one view out of keeping with your 99% left leaning ones, doesn’t suddenly make you right wing. It’s not ‘drifting’ across the spectrum to have 10 left wing views and 1 ‘centrist’ one, you’re still broadly left wing. But the left consider it dissent to such an extent that they can no longer tolerate you.

This is what I mean. Any querying, any questioning, anything other than complete 100% agreement with the left, and you’re a ‘closet right winger’ with an agenda.

Unusually, this thread has got to page 8 without me weighing in at all but that's because I've been too busy to RTFT, and I still haven't. Congratulations, OP, on keeping pace and continuuing to comment regularly.

Glad to see the usual suspects are out in force, from both ends of the spectrum, but yes, I'd broadly agree that the "left" are less tolerant of views they disagree with than the right, and that some on the left are keen to tag anything less than full-blown adherence to the correct opinions with very unpleasant epithets.

It wasn't my posts I was on about, although you never did explain why you wanted to know my child status?

On that thread, way before it reached capacity, you were asked questions by several posters on that thread, most of which were anything but rabid left wing attack hounds, and you refused repeatedly to answer, instead coming back with questions of your own and then stating you wouldn't answer any of their questions until they answered yours (despite them asking first).

So no it's not a dig to say you'll only respond to reasonable posts, but it's not accurate either.

😅 you started the thread claiming not to have an agenda but have only agreed with Tories. I'm not accusing you of being a 'closet right winger.' That would be ludicrous given your obvious agenda. And I haven't said who I vote for, but because I've called out some cliched right wing nonsense I'm accused of not allowing folk to query or question. The irony is delicious; it's almost Trumpian.

What tolerance has been shown to more left-wing views on here from the right? An example would be illuminating.

Got any examples?

Sunak called Starmer a leftie lawyer today, i suspect you'll say thats all ok.

Not in anyone wildest imagination could anyone call Starmer a "Leftie" He would have fitted in well in any Tory Govt up until 2016.

TBH i find both sides are equally intolerant, neither side are angels, i'd vote Tory in a moment if they returned to One Nation conservatism, the sort that Heath espoused but atm the moment the party is too far to the right for me.

I haven't, as I explained above, RTFT so I am hardly going to comment on specific points. I have skimmed it. But from that superficial read, I haven't seen any real attempt to state or defend Labour's positions on anything, only knee jerk responses to posters who have mentioned their reservations about the current controversies on gender rights, immigration policy and benefits from the perspective of the long suffering middle ground -- where GEs are won or lost.

beguiling, what as labelled Laour's garden tax last time round "What's the £20,000? Not being goady, I just haven't heard of it." As I got on my bike to leave all family behind to move to London my house is worth more than had I stayed in Newcastle. That was my estimate for the land value tax Labour was proposing based on the value of my house.

I think it would be surprising as a high tax payer if Labour did not take me a lot more and I already feel utterly taxed to the hilt and not recovered form paying stamp duty on my house even.... so I am pretty sure by one means or other a Labour government would mean a lot more tax for me.

However as it is not in power yet it is keepig very quiet on the issue of land value tax and taxes on "mansions" (ie small London flats) so far as they know it will be so unpopular. It would start out at expenses like ATED has (tax annually on houses in a company) and then be brought down like ATED was to houses only costing £500k.

If Labour intendst not to raise my taxes or to tax me even less presumably it would be trumpeting it from the roof tops and we would allk onw about it - vote labour and pay less tax; keep the pound in your pocket; small state Labour, low tax. No hope of that.

And have generally been met with oppobrium.

I don’t think that’s right. My question was a general if you vote for x what do you think? Someone who doesn’t vote for x isn’t necessarily included, although I then changed it to x or other so feel free to still say and the poster said ok

If that’s what you’re talking about, otherwise I can’t recall every interaction. Re your post I was a bit taken aback by the views expressed tbh

GPec I can’t listen to the usual Times programme on PMQs anymore, I find it too unbearable. Was it much different to attacks on Rishi’s private school background previously?

GPTec1 rather.. I don’t like tagging but couldn’t quite recall name

So you come out with a clear statement on intolerance/insults from the left but haven't seen any to quote or even remember... i see.

I ve no issues with curbing immigration, the current situation is unsustainable but these new policy announcement are clearly not going to work, quite simply there is no where to send 10s of 1000s of migrants, its exactly well over 100.000 inc the back log.

If the Tories want to go down this route, then they should take the UK out of its various UN treaty obligations including the ECHR, then everything they do will be "lawful" and will not be held up in the courts.

My observation is based on a wide-ranging read of threads, and IME it is often the left-leaning posters who are quickest with the slurs. There are equally many high-principled posters on both wings who play the ball and not the player, and can agree to disagree in their opinions.