To ask what stops you voting for Labour?

[Winniethepoohandtiggertoo]

No agenda I’m just interested as Kier is on LBC this morning…

For me it’s the TWAW magical thinking, and not being convinced they would prioritise average earners, which I want to happen.

I am politically homeless.
Keir is spineless and personality free.
They don't believe in scientific fact, we'll have the bloody Creationists again soon, teaching evolution and creationism as if they were equal 'theories'.
Millionaires abound. They've no damn idea what it's like for ordinary people.

Fifth columnists? Your lot are ridiculous and exactly why we have a fucking Tory shit-show just now.

@MarshaBradyo

I’m fed up with the lack of ability to debate above ‘you’re a Tory / HQ’ from some quarters.

Agree 100%

@BreadInCaptivity

Again, who called anyone a money grabber? I certainly didn't, meaning you have answered an argument I didn't make. There's more to women's rights than the trans issue. There's maternity leave and pay, minimum wages, the care and health sectors, gay rights, childcare. All of which are at risk after Brexit and the promised bonfire of human rights. I haven't even said I'd vote Labour. 😂

@spartanrunnergirl maybe ask Rosie Duffield for advice if you are not sure how to vote being so concerned about her.

I think it's great that @Hobbi has taken so much time to come along and convince many people that voting for Labour is a very bad thing indeed.

However, I imagine @Hobbi that you're posting from Conservative Party HQ and I hope that one of your bosses will recognise the sterling work you're doing and give you a pay rise.

The alternative-that you really are a Labour supporter and are sincere in your efforts to puff them up-is really almost unbelievable, as -if this is the case-you're doing an appalling job.

If however, you are 14-and your inability to follow arguments and sloppy use of language might suggest this-then it is probably time to simmer down and go to bed.

Not voting for Labour is a vote to keep the worst government in history in power. The Conservatives have destroyed the country over the past 13 years. People need to view it as a vote to get them out and be willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen and that usually means voting Labour. It's not about one person- it's about policies and too many people focus on one person. Read the manifestos and vote accordingly.
If you are happy with the current state of affairs then don't vote for Labour, but it's really frustrating when people hate the Tories but can't see that not voting for someone else or spoiling a ballot means you are effectively helping them to retain power.

Stop gaslighting.

We can see your posts.

You made very clear that your view was that money/finances was a reason why people voted conservative and not Labour.

@DumpedinKilburn wow what an oh so clever put down. 🙄

This about tax cracks me up. The Tory doublespeak means that they eternally talk about lowering taxes while presiding over the highest taxes for 70 years.
They sneakily don't raise the thresholds so more and more people are dragged into the higher tax bracket every year.
Meanwhile Amazon pay bugger all.

Ex Labour voter. For many years. But I’m a Jewish woman, so need I say more?

The whole misogyny of throwing woman under the bus. How DARE they.

Plus stupid shit like abolishing the House of Lords. That whole thing of doing something cos ideology, instead of what actually, you know, works. Prats.

Also, the whole sanctimonious self-righteous, pious, holier-than-thou attitude of the Left these days is excruciating. Like going back in time to the Victorian era, in a parallel universe, where it’s not Christianity everyone’s falling over themselves to compete to be the most good at. And instead it’s being ‘cool’ and inclusive and elevating hurt feelings to the apogee of woundedness. Instead of people taking responsibility for their own feelings and seeing it as their own responsibility to deal with their ‘triggers’. With nobody telling these children to grow up.

Labour isn’t going to be encouraging these wet lettuces to grow a backbone. And the problem is the wet lettuces are also vicious arseholes, waiting to tear peoples lives apart, purely because they don’t agree with their opinion. With the Labour upper echelons timidly going along with it, the craven, snivelling shits. It makes me 🤮

So I’m effectively disenfranchised, while undergoing the biggest assault on women’s rights for a hundred years. What a time to be alive.

Why are we being berated for not voting for the shit show that is the current Labour Party and leadership, instead of the current Labour Party and leadership being berated for the lamentable failure to shape up and present an offer than one could actually vote for?

THEY’RE responsible for failing to make themselves electable. We’re NOT responsible for refusing to vote for such an appalling shower if shite.

Get your act together, Labour, you utter twunts.

The best election manifesto ever....

"Whatever it takes" to get the Tories out of power.

Has it occurred that given the Tories are so shit, we might want to aim a bit higher?

That we shouldn't have to vote for an opposition that is frankly beholden to lobby groups to the point of denying reality?

Don't you see how voting for Labour right now signifies just how little we expect from our politicians?

Moreover how little they respect the electorate (even the left learning people like myself)?

They should have an open goal right now.

They don't, because they are "selling" goods people neither want or need.

I really wish people would stop blaming the electorate for Labours failings.

It drove me mad in my CLP before I left.

If the electorate doesn't want to vote for you, berating them for their choice isn't going to capture their vote next time round.

Rather think about why they don't/won't vote for you without an assumption that you know best - because that's exactly why you'll be in opposition for the next decade.

I won't vote Labour because I haven't got photo ID 😉

@BreadInCaptivity

"You made very clear that your view was that money/finances was a reason why people voted conservative and not Labour."

I clearly said that financial self-interest is a traditional reason to vote Tory. I also said that was understandable. You are repeatedly avoiding my second point that it is not, in my opinion, reasonable to vote Tory to protect human rights. They openly oppose much human rights legislation and the rights of women gained through history or via EU membership. The merger of UKIP with the Tories and their emboldening created by driving a treacherous and dishonest Brexit deal is part of a move towards destruction of all rights against power. This is essentially the same party that worshipped the Eton buffoon and elected Liz Truss. And I'm the anti-democratic one. If you're going to misrepresent me again, and not tell me why you want Tory rule if it isn't for the reasons I suggested, keep it to yourself. It's childish.

Their answer to anyone who refers to the evils they've worked and how weak and treacherous they are is bu-bu-but the tories this and the tories that and you wouldn't want to be tory scum, would you?

As someone who is concerned about what happens to our children and grandchildren and sees the Labour Party's ever-growing list of priorities that are more important than anything resembling concern for us, I don't see "but Ooga Booga the TORIES! WoooOooo!" as an answer.

*Why are we being berated for not voting for the shit show that is the current Labour Party and leadership, instead of the current Labour Party and leadership being berated for the lamentable failure to shape up and present an offer than one could actually vote for?

THEY’RE responsible for failing to make themselves electable. We’re NOT responsible for refusing to vote for such an appalling shower if shite.

Get your act together, Labour, you utter twunts.*

👏👏👏👏

Jesus fucking Christ 🙄 And were is the accountability of the Labour Party for not been able to persuade all the very desperate and fuck over people to vote for them?

I despise what the tories have done to
this country. I CANNOT vote for them.

But I can not vote Labour, I could not willingly and deliberately help to inflict them on this population. Labour are Appalling at the moment. ( my reasons are in my first post on this thread)

I am politically Homeless.

Upshot is if you can't find enough common ground with the people casting their votes then as a party your principles are nothing if you are powerless to enact them
This^

Well said from me too. I don’t know why Labour are so bad at this. You see it mirrored in posts on here too.

ReedRite · Yesterday 23:31

Why are we being berated for not voting for the shit show that is the current Labour Party and leadership, instead of the current Labour Party and leadership being berated for the lamentable failure to shape up and present an offer than one could actually vote for?

THEY’RE responsible for failing to make themselves electable. We’re NOT responsible for refusing to vote for such an appalling shower if shite.

Get your act together, Labour, you utter twunts

Also this ^

I clearly said that financial self-interest is a traditional reason to vote Tory. I also said that was understandable.

Which you then denied.

You are repeatedly avoiding my second point that it is not, in my opinion, reasonable to vote Tory to protect human rights. They openly oppose much human rights legislation and the rights of women gained through history or via EU membership.

I have not avoided anything. You have not ever directed such a question at myself.

As to your point, it's just rhetoric. Be specific if you want to change my point of view.

Which legislation exactly are the Tory party opposing re: women's rights?

I'm very well aware of the legislation re: Human Rights Act 1998 wrt Brexit and watch with interest.

The merger of UKIP with the Tories and their emboldening created by driving a treacherous and dishonest Brexit deal is part of a move towards destruction of all rights against power.

Sorry but you've jumped the shark here 😂.

I'll agree about a shitty Brexit deal but I'm pretty sure even Boris and Dominic were not so grandiose to think this was a seismic shift in "rights against power". Rather a calculated campaign to demonstrate "right" to remain in "power".

This is essentially the same party that worshipped the Eton buffoon and elected Liz Truss.

Yes it's awful - but frankly when Labour have Corbyn still whittling away and the recently convicted former MP for Sheffield Hallam then "meh"...

And I'm the anti-democratic one. If you're going to misrepresent me again, and not tell me why you want Tory rule if it isn't for the reasons I suggested, keep it to yourself. It's childish.

😂

I've been very clear about my rationale. You just don't want to take your hands from your ears because you don't like what I say.

I'm prepared to debate and explain my position.

You on the other hand just want to throw insults.

I'll let other posters here consider who is being childish....

Exactly.

@BreadInCaptivity

I denied I called anyone a money grabber. You made that up, amongst other misrepresentations. I spoke of financial self-interest, and, unlike you, conceded it was an understandable position, even though it may not be mine. You haven't said why you think the Tories are a better option, but have rolled out cliches about Corbyn, who is an independent MP, without the whip. I've insulted no one, nor have I praised the Labour Party. I've also repeatedly stated that this ukip/Tory alliance is a threat to my country and that it isn't undemocratic to want rid of them. And brexit was very much about the dismantling of rights, openly so.

Their transphobia, and being Tory fucking lite.

Yes it's awful - but frankly when Labour have Corbyn still whittling away and the recently convicted former MP for Sheffield Hallam then "meh"...

Neither of them are currently members of the Labour Party. Unlike:
Priti Patel- bullying, security issues
Dominic Raab- bullying
Boris Johnson- first PM to get a fpn in office
Rishi Sunak- fpn while in government
The unnamed mp being investigated for sexual assault
Baroness Mone- appears to have millions of pounds of taxpayers money in off shore bank accounts.

I could go on.