To ask what stops you voting for Labour?

[Winniethepoohandtiggertoo]

No agenda I’m just interested as Kier is on LBC this morning…

For me it’s the TWAW magical thinking, and not being convinced they would prioritise average earners, which I want to happen.

@ReneBumsWombats

"What, like Labour??"

Who's belittling who now?

Labour is far from perfect, in fact it's a very weak opposition that has failed to capitalise on a government seemingly intent on losing support. My point is that the non financial reasons for not voting Labour make no sense. Give this lot another mandate and see what happens to the rights of ANY protected characteristics. In my opinion therefore any reasons not to vote Labour that aren't the traditional Tory ones of self-interest, dislike of the welfare state and conservation of privilege are illogical.

Voted Labour all my life. I won't vote for them now for two reasons :

1. TWAW gender nonsense.
2. If KS and Labour had been in charge the last few years we'd still be in lockdown and wearing useless masks everywhere. They demonstrated such a lack of critical thinking during the pandemic and were a useless opposition.

Won't vote Tory - will probably spoil my ballot paper.

@RufustheSpeculatingreindeer

I'd be interested in one example of me being 'anti-democratic'. I've clearly said I understand some reasons why people would vote Tory. Vote what you like, just don't pretend you're voting Tory to protect the rights of vulnerable people and minorities, because that's ludicrous.

The TWAW nonsense. Appalling treatment of Rosie Duffield. Inability to state what a woman is. They show disregard for the legitimate safety concerns of women and girls.

After 13 long years of Labour and Gordon Brown, almost the whole country was on benefits

Was it, aye?

"What, like Labour??"

Who's belittling who now?

I'm criticising a political party. Is that not allowed?

Is this literally all you've got? "There's literally no legitimate reason not to vote Labour! If you don't, you're a rich moneygrubber, there are no other reasons to be turned off Labour right now! Whaddaya mean, Labour are turning people towards the Tories with their policies and behaviour? That's BELITTLING, that is!"

Their eagerness to destroy women's right and protections and their willingness to dismantle child protection systems.

God forbid we should have locked down earlier and followed medical advice, saving thousands of lives. And just because you didn't die, doesn't mean masks were useless. That's called the survivor's fallacy.

Their adherence to the TWAW ideology.

I've come to the realisation I will have to vote for them because we need the Tories out, but for me it's the TWAW bollocks.

Not voting tory….

other parties are available but you don’t seem keen for people to vote for them unless its to get the tories out….anti democratic

TWAW. I will never vote for any party which continues to espouse this nonsense.

Who called anyone a "moneygrubber" (whatever that means)?
You seem to be wilfully constructing straw men. I never said voting for one's financial self-interest was evil. I've repeatedly made the point that voting Tory to defend the rights of the vulnerable is illogical. They openly admit to wanting to take away human rights and are happily getting on with it.

I would add like a lot of other people on this thread I've actually always voted Labour other than times when a Lib Dem stood more chance against a Tory. And I do also like KS - he sadly hasn't lived up to my expectations but I remain hopeful and do like to see him wipe the floor with the government at PMQs, I feel being a KC certainly helps in that department and I do think he is a person of intelligence, substance and integrity. But the TWAW stance and weakness when it comes to women's rights and inability to admit what they actually really think on this issue enrages and disappoints me in equal measure.

But yes will vote for them because the Tories are ruining the country.

I’m not voting this time round. I genuinely think that if our vote made any difference we wouldn’t have one.

I live in Cornwall where I don't think there's a prospective Labour Party candidate. It's time to build support now and understand what policies prevent people from voting for them. Would I vote for them at the moment - 👎
Would I vote Conservative 👎 👎 👎

Yes you did.

You also (wrongly) assume my position is financial motivated.

Frankly you are doing a really good job of exposing why women (or men) should not vote Labour because all you can come up with is "you're big self interested meanies" if you don't.

The whole point of politics is that most people are directed by self-interest.

Those people - hey let's call them the electorate.......

When you ignore that self interest you don't get elected.

It doesn't matter what that interest is. Financial or women's rights.

Upshot is if you can't find enough common ground with the people casting their votes then as a party your principles are nothing if you are powerless to enact them.

@RufustheSpeculatingreindeer

How on earth is wanting the Tories out 'anti-democratic'? I think the current iteration of the Tory/UKIP party is extraordinarily dangerous for the Britain I love. I want them gone via democratic means. You don't want me to voice that opinion but say it's me who's not democratic.

Keir is rubbish but he’s not Rishi or Boris and we’ve gotta get rid of those Tory clowns

@BreadInCaptivity

"Frankly you are doing a really good job of exposing why women (or men) should not vote Labour because all you can come up with is "you're big self interested meanies" if you don't."

Another straw man. I called no one a meanie. I said the traditional reason to vote Tory is for financial self-interest. I also said that was understandable. What I don't find understandable is the suggestion that the Tories are a better option for defending the rights of the vulnerable.

I appreciate the level of your posts. Interesting to read.

I’m fed up with the lack of ability to debate above ‘you’re a Tory / HQ’ from some quarters.

Women’s rights are important to some of us and it’s good we have this space, and actually I think some change has come from it which is brilliant.

You don't know what a strawman is, just as you don't understand why criticising a political party isn't the same as insulting people for not voting the way you want them to.

You've come on here telling people that, despite pages and pages explaining everything that Labour is doing to lose their vote, none of that is true and the only reason they won't vote Labour is because they're rich and they want to get richer. You've ignored all their concerns and insulted them, and you think that's going to make them think you're right?

Like I said, what do you want? To satisfy your self-image of moralistic superiority? Carry on, great job. Or do you want to actually bring people back to Labour?

If doing things that lead to Tory rule makes one a Tory, the Labour Party is one of the biggest Tory campaigners out there - and so are you.

Starmer being an establishment stooge. Backstabber bastard.

I'd vote for Corbyn if he came back and got rid of all the fifth columnists.

@ReneBumsWombats

I know exactly what a straw man is. You've just presented another. I never said the only reason to vote Tory is because you're rich and want to get richer. That's an argument you've constructed on my behalf. Financial self-interest can mean lots of things. If you believe the Conservative Party is the way forward for women's rights, that's fine. I don't agree and I believe the evidence supports my view - but you don't seem to want to take that point on, preferring to make up things I've supposedly said.

Not a straw man at all.

Tell me exactly how Labour plan to support vulnerable women when they are too captured by a lobby group to define a biological woman?

What other lobby groups are they prey to?

You make your distain for non Labour voters here pretty plain.

We are all self interested money grabbers to you.

This lack of insight is EXACTLY why Labour is failing to recall former voters.

But hey, keep up with your narrative. I'm sure anyone from the Tory party is loving it.