Why are so many women putting up with ghastly husbands/partners?

[Dottymug]

It's the 21st century. Women have so many more opportunities and choices than they had in the past. So why are so many women posting on here about being sworn at, insulted, betrayed and treated as slaves by men who they've no intention of leaving/chucking out? It's utterly depressing. Don't put up with that shit. Life is too short.

Honestly I think a lot of this judgemental behaviour is rooted in trying to make themselves feel safe. She must have been stupid, she must have ignored obvious red flags, she must have been raised wrong, she must have gone for the “bad boy”. This wouldn’t happen to me. And so on and so forth.

@Ncgirlseriously - yes it is a protective response but also very narcissistic. We all need a bit of that to protect our esteem but it is notable how much emotional battering is done by some women in defence of poor behaviour by some men. This also extends to sons.

Not being married means I'm entitled to 100% of the house I owned before I met him. Plus I get to kick his abusive arse out for free. Sick of marriage being trotted out on mn as always a positive. I'm so pleased I never married him.

Mine definitely changed the moment we got married… but we already had children by then. It was like he had “caught me” and didn’t need to bother anymore.

When it comes to serious violence perhaps. But as far as just being a shitty person, name calling, emotional abuse etc - it’s just as serious and far reaching with women as men and it just avoiding responsibility because it’s easier to lay it on men to suggest otherwise.

What about dumping the domestic and parenting load on the other partner? Surely you wouldn't claim that's equally prevalent in women as in men?

There are certainly plenty of unpleasant women who behave badly towards their partners (and probably to people in general), but I think this attitude of treating your partner as though they are your domestic appliance with bonus sex-providing function is really the preserve of men, and it is stems from misogyny and patriarchal views, not from just generally being an arsehole.

Mine was perfect for the first five months. People with NPD or BPD are entirely different in the idealised love bombing stage.

He was like Jekyll and Hyde after. A completely different person. I met him at work and he had a completely different persona there.

It was only several months into the relationship (once I was already very attached) that he gradually started to say how many times an ex had him arrested for domestic abuse. He was never charged though and it was a decade earlier.

Trauma bonding is complicated. Even now I'm still in regular contact with him and feel very conflicted. I can see all the bad parts but still always defend him.

@Saturday82 Same with my Ex, he was the perfect man. He was universally respected and liked, well paid job, no sign of aggression at all, kind to everyone. People who knew him years said that he was ‘one of the good ones’. He did not have any red flags. He turned out to be a mean, miserly person who kept me very poor whilst he was hoarding his money after I was maternity leave, and a serial adulterer, and eventually emotionally abusive.

I’m still told by people that I have to have therapy to ‘sort out why I made bad choices or why I am attracted to bad men… ‘. It’s so victim blaming.

It’s also the case that many of these red flags only become so once children are in the picture. If a man wanted to spend Saturday evenings down the pub or all of Sunday golfing when the couple were childfree this was probably not a massive issue but when the kids came along if the man doesn't of his own volition adjust then the woman becomes 'moany' and is attempting to 'ruin' her partners social life by asking him to participate in family life. On and on it goes.

Yep. It’s very hard to visualise how this will impact you before you become the primary carer of a tiny dependent infant.

Particularly as couples often have almost no discussion before marriage and children about how they see the roles and responsibilities falling.

Women are usually driving the desire to have children and most men don’t have the faintest idea what is going to be expected of them post children (because generally they were raised along more traditional gender lines).

So often there’s a perfect storm of wilful denial on the part of the woman and total ignorance on the part of the man which blows up into mutual resentment after the children come along as both parties feel they have been taken for a ride.

The persona is another reason why I never told anyone at work or reported it. He said if I ever spoke about it he'd have a lot of character witnesses.

@Saturday82 thats awful, I think so many successful men turn out to be financially abusive once they have children. They totally screw over their partners when on maternity leave. It’s chilling.

@Saturday82 @PearCrumbleCustard

I reckon that the people you are talking about are not men but women. Am I right?

I said 'he' a few times.

It is only a positive financially if you are the lower earning partner as far as I can see.

I'm not married either (been there, done that) we both have good careers and our own property and we have arrangements in place for our joint children. I don't have any intention of leaving him, but if it did come to that we would be both in a similar situation as to when we entered the relationship and there wouldn't be all the wrangling you get during a divorce, which I have absolutely no desire to repeat.

@Saturday82 sorry if I wasn't clear - I mean generally the experience is that women blame other women for having a difficult abusive experience. But if your experience is different, no less valid. It is all social enforcement.

This is so true. Women do indeed seem to be the primary force in having children and men seem to not want to change their lives for something they weren’t that bothered about. They don’t want to sacrifice their hobbies for soft play and ‘family time’, women don’t seem to mind as much.

If both parties could just be totally honest….

Sorry, I thought you meant the most recent post about the ex.

The comments were 1) female, 2) male, 3) female and 4) female.

In general, people would say things like "Move on" then immediately change the subject. That made me feel even more isolated, so I started going to therapy instead.

It's made me feel more resentful. I used to listen to everyone's problems, including strangers on the train etc, whereas I don't now. I'm sure people think I've become less 'nice.'

It also kept me tied to the ex since I felt that he was the only person who understood me.

It’s also the case that many of these red flags only become so once children are in the picture. If a man wanted to spend Saturday evenings down the pub or all of Sunday golfing when the couple were childfree this was probably not a massive issue but when the kids came along if the man doesn't of his own volition adjust then the woman becomes 'moany' and is attempting to 'ruin' her partners social life by asking him to participate in family life. On and on it goes.

definitely.

She changes in all sorts of ways to match the new responsibilities. But too often he does not. And then gaslights everyone around him into viewing her as the problem for having expected him
to change his life because he’s now a father.

You can’t necessarily tell who is going to step up and who isn’t beforehand. You simply assume that you’re both going to change and flex to match your new circumstances. Then we make excuses about how the poor man wasn’t pregnant so he couldn’t possibly be expected to have changed. Or he’s still working so, obviously, he can’t share the load. And so on.

Thing is, these men actually do believe they’re the victims of these awful nagging women. And the societal narrative is such that we too easily blame the women - in every way imaginable (she’s a horrible shrew, a dreadful martyr, should have seen the signs, doesn’t appreciate how hard his life is, and so on and so on) - rather than then men.

Ah the victim blaming... 'surely you knew what he was like before DS' 'why did you go back' 'you need some therapy/work' 'I wouldn't put up with that' and the worst 'I told you so'
I knew that would happen when it ended. I didn't want to face it. But now I know, that's much easier to deal with than the abuse I had 24/7 before. Bring on the blame. I don't give a fuck.
I stayed because I was scared. I was in a fog and I didn't know how to get out.

I have noticed, some of my female friends treated appallingly. They say such nice things about their partners behind their backs and I don't say anything. I know in the past they've had terrible ex's, they don't stay single long before jumping head first with another arsehole. I don't know if this is them not wanting to be alone or shame that, once again, they chose a terrible partner. I'd still be open to supporting them after a break up and I'd stay clear of phrases like those listed above.

@OverTheRubicon Absolutely nails it for me. Tugged right on the heartstrings. 100%
@monsterradeliciosa What you said definitely reasonates with me. Hope you are ok.

Truth is, I met DP when I was in my late 20s and had been single a few years, he seemed keen, we had fun together and he had a good job, house and car. Not that I'm shallow but it mattered to me at the time after years of dating student types.
We used to go to gigs, out for drinks and have fun together- no responsibility. Then I fell pregnant and things changed beyond all recognition. This was not what I thought I was signing up for. The selfishness and lazyiness is just off the scale. He hates my family, my job, nothing I do is ever good enough. I'm a shit mum too apparently 😔
I stay for financial reasons, stability for DD and because I have no one to talk to or a place to go.
I've mentioned it to friends and they say chuck him out or change the locks. They have no idea. He's not leaving this house without a fight. He's the high earner and thinks he should stay here. He's 18st and 6foot, I can't physically move him. If we did ever split up I'd be concerned over him playing dirty through DD or taking her elsewhere to get away from me. MIL has form for being a toxic twat and wouldn't make my life easy either.
So it's fear. I pray it won't be forever, I'm certainly not scared of being alone or rid of him. I formulate plans. I save money if I can. Sometimes I stay up into the night looking at flats to rent on rightmove and fantasising what it would be like to live alone with DD, away from someone drinking, keeping me up all night and telling me how shit I am.

People on the outside have no idea. I'm quite happy go lucky, most people would be horrified by what goes on.

Mumsnet gives me strength and I'm so glad it exists. There really are women out there for which this is one of their only avenue of support. So thank you. And for everyone going through this x

How on earth is the law biased in the non resident parents favour?

bias in the Law depends very much on your individual situation. Divorce is no-blame so it doesn't matter who did what from a legal perspective, the Law just comes at division of assets from a financial perspective. Consideration is given to the age of children, who had done childcaring or other caring, earning power (which, depending on your chosen profession, is rarely equal). Who the children will spend most of their time with is also a consideration - but less so as 50/50 care becomes more and more common. The Law attempts to put two people back out into society on as even a keel as possible - which sometimes means the lower earner/one with the least financial prospects gets to keep the house. Frequently, however, houses have to be sold - I do think it's a bit of a divorce myth that 'the PWC stays in the house until the youngest child is 18 and doesn't have to pay anything'. It's really not the case.

the biggest issue with separation and divorce is child maintenance where there is very little political will to ensure that it is paid and paid at a reasonable rate. The statistics on child maintenance are shocking. It is an even bigger issue with the 50/50 situation when maintenance isn't technically due to either side - the societal pretence that both sides are paying their fair share is hilarious. In any relationship, a higher earning partner demanding that the lower earner pays 50% of all child related costs would be met with cries of LTB. Apparently, it's fair once separated. It isn't. And again, no legal will to look at the bigger picture and attempt to develop a system that is fair to all concerned.

@reddwarfgeek I hope you can find a way out soon. It hit me hard when you talk about dreaming of you and DD living alone, it's exactly what i did. Also had the sleepless nights while the alcoholic, drug taker told me that I was a terrible mother, partner and person. I have to giggle about that now.
I don't want to sound patronising, so I'm sorry if you've already done this, but would you consider ringing women's aid? They don't push you to leave but their advice is broad, they can point you in the right direction for benefits etc and help you with a plan when you're able to leave. Wishing you best of luck

Unless you've lived in fear of your life, you have no idea of how hard it is to leave.
There's no childcare, there's no social housing, no benefits for the third child, no support if you have a disabled child, DV shelters turn away 90 women a day for lack of space, and your kids will grow up in a single income family.

If we really want women to have choices; we have to build an infrastructure to give women choices.

Unless you’ve tried, you have no idea how difficult it is to get someone to leave your house or a shared house if they won’t go. Unless you have enough disposable cash to get a decent lawyer - usually charging over £200/250 an hour and no not many do the mythical free 30min consultatIon - and have enough evidence for a non-molestation order, it’s incredibly difficult. If you don’t have a spare £5k to hand and a good support network, even getting him to leave the premises if he won’t agree to it is incredibly hard. Without sustained documented evidence of domestic abuse (police records etc.) you’ll get no legal aid.

Then you face the possibility of him getting custody of your children for a certain amount of time, to live or visit somewhere you don’t know, and can’t be there for them to make sure they are okay. (If your ex doesn’t even tell you his address where your children will be staying it’s near impossible to force him to do so.) The pleasant LTB delusion that people will help you and the law will be on your side will be well and truly punctured once you have even one meeting with a solicitor who lays it out for you how difficult things can get and what he will likely be entitled to. Even the most feminist and helpful a solicitor doesn’t work for free, and won’t hesitate to give you the full picture.

If you have ever had experience of this you wouldn’t be asking why. The reality is that even if you are the breadwinner, you will find it financially devastating to get an abusive partner to leave; and he will be backed up by the legal system, family court and just about everyone to have more than you could imagine he’d be entitled to.

@Eleganz @ladygindiva

So true. Marriage is always trotted out on here as the silver bullet that protects women but in fact marriage only really works like that if you are planning to stop work for a fairly long period of time and the man becomes the sole breadwinner. For a female breadwinner marriage is usually an unmitigated disaster if the couple splits and many women get trapped because they have married no mark blokes who do nothing to support their wife either financially or domestically and sit back scratching their arse and thinking their ship has come in.

I think the whole discussion around marriage and the way it's presented to young women needs to radically change. It's presented as the fait accompli way to protect yourself: winning the family lottery. In fact it should be seen solely as an insurance policy for a woman who wants to take time off to raise her children, not a life goal. And women need to be made aware of the risks to their financial security of getting married to a man who won't step up. For a long time female breadwinners were such an anomaly in society that this conversation was barely worth having but there are more and more of us now and it's a risk many young women just aren't aware of.

Even if you are married, even if your husband is utterly reliable, trustworthy and hands on, even if all the stars align, the only 100% reliable way to protect yourself is to work.

It is an insurance policy for children if a woman wants to take care of her children. Marriage has always been about children, for both sexes, and a woman these days who does not know how to secure employment or raise her own pension and is hoping a man will cure that is heading for poverty in many cases.

And separating from a difficult man is harder than being in a relationship with that difficult man. Because he's happy with the arrangement- so many women seem to think it's about a renegotiation or that if he thinks about it then it will get better.

I'm sorry but that is plain stupid. These types of men are self interested. What is in it for them to compromise? Why is it that the woman is unhappy because she is doing the shit work? He is happy with that arrangement. That attitude will be worse through a divorce or other split, not better in most cases.

Mothers should be guiding their girls that many men, not all, but many, are expecting a wife that picks up a traditional role. So marriage should be, what's in it for me? And also, get a bloody good job. Add a good man to that, not the other way around.