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AIBU?

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Original poster

Why are so many women putting up with ghastly husbands/partners?

318 replies

Dottymug · 04/03/2023 22:26

It's the 21st century. Women have so many more opportunities and choices than they had in the past. So why are so many women posting on here about being sworn at, insulted, betrayed and treated as slaves by men who they've no intention of leaving/chucking out? It's utterly depressing. Don't put up with that shit. Life is too short.

OP posts:
bluejelly · 05/03/2023 16:31

Flowers to everyone who feels/is stuck in bad relationships. I know how difficult it is to leave. I did eventually get out and every day I am grateful that I am no longer in an abusive relationship.
The steps that helped me get free were:

  1. recognising I was in an abusive relationship (thank you mumsnet)
  2. counselling (not with him)
  3. support from friends. Luckily I wasn't financially enmeshed so it didn't cost me anything. I always advise my (adult) daughters to have a 'running away fund' in order to be able to leave if they need to. And never commit to a mortgage, a marriage or having a baby until they know someone inside out.
Aphrathestorm · 05/03/2023 16:38

££££

YouAreNotBatman · 05/03/2023 17:07

Spectre8 · 05/03/2023 10:49

On another thread, some women are saying well if you want to have more money have a partner and its your fault if your still single. Basically marry anyone and put up with shit and you can get that house

This is women telling other women this. No wonder we are in a mess about this

Link, please?
@Spectre8

Spectre8 · 05/03/2023 19:15

YouAreNotBatman · 05/03/2023 17:07

Link, please?
@Spectre8

Show quote history

Thread

Fairislefandango · 05/03/2023 19:30

I've just read that thread @Spectre8 and as far as I can see there is one poster who's saying that, and she's being roundly criticised for it by everyone else. The other people are saying that men often aren't net contributors, or that yes it's tough to live on a single wage but at least you don't have to be dependant on a potentially rubbish bloke. And that the OP's friends are arseholes if they are looking down on her for buying stuff secondhand etc.

ladygindiva · 05/03/2023 19:42

Thepeopleversuswork · 05/03/2023 14:44

@Eleganz @ladygindiva

So true. Marriage is always trotted out on here as the silver bullet that protects women but in fact marriage only really works like that if you are planning to stop work for a fairly long period of time and the man becomes the sole breadwinner. For a female breadwinner marriage is usually an unmitigated disaster if the couple splits and many women get trapped because they have married no mark blokes who do nothing to support their wife either financially or domestically and sit back scratching their arse and thinking their ship has come in.

I think the whole discussion around marriage and the way it's presented to young women needs to radically change. It's presented as the fait accompli way to protect yourself: winning the family lottery. In fact it should be seen solely as an insurance policy for a woman who wants to take time off to raise her children, not a life goal. And women need to be made aware of the risks to their financial security of getting married to a man who won't step up. For a long time female breadwinners were such an anomaly in society that this conversation was barely worth having but there are more and more of us now and it's a risk many young women just aren't aware of.

Even if you are married, even if your husband is utterly reliable, trustworthy and hands on, even if all the stars align, the only 100% reliable way to protect yourself is to work.

Amen to this, absolutely

Retractable · 05/03/2023 20:09

I agree that marriage is not the silver bullet it gets presented as on MN. In fact, if you do work and have a good career, and particularly if you bring your own assets to the relationship, it can absolutely work against you.

Personally, I am teaching my children that marriage is a contract - with many drawbacks. And it’s much better that both parties are able to support themselves. I wouldn’t advise any woman to make herself dependent on a man, and I wouldn’t advise a man to make a woman dependent on him. Finding a way to develop two decent careers alongside a family feels much more supportive and better for both parties.

Retractable · 05/03/2023 20:16

I certainly wouldn’t advise any woman to let a man make himself dependent on her either for the reasons outlined above.

I wouldn’t advise anyone to have or be an adult dependent where possible. Obviously life happens and illness and disability are issues, but I wouldn’t suggest it as a starting point or an aim.

But in general the societal narrative that women should find themselves a man who’ll marry them and keep them so they can stay at home with the children.

I guess I don’t subscribe to the choice model of feminism. Choices are not all equal. Some choices perpetuate harmful social circumstances in various ways. Choosing to be someone’s dependent feels a risky choice. And does feed the idea that women’s (paid) work is more expendable than men’s as well as the idea that children are their mother’s responsibility.

MarchMate · 05/03/2023 20:45

@Retractable I married my DH despite owning my own flat and a much higher income because I loved him and because I thought once I was pregnant...might as well. I was very naive. It seemed natural progression. I actually was happy to be breadwinner and him to be a house husband. I now know he thinks a house husband sits at home playing video games and scratching his balls while his wife pays for everything. And now I'm stuck.

I wish I'd known about MN before I got married

isadoradancing123 · 05/03/2023 21:08

The bottom line is, as with most things, money

Original poster
Dottymug · 05/03/2023 21:08

@myveryownelectrickitten actually I have been there with my alcoholic ex. It was indeed financially devastating and a long hard road to get him removed from the house. But I did it despite the hardship because living with him was the worst possible option, not just for me but for my children.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dottymug · 05/03/2023 21:12

It was only having a reasonable salary which made it possible for me to leave. If I could give any young woman advice it would be to establish a career first and keep it at all costs.

OP posts:
Retractable · 05/03/2023 21:14

MarchMate · 05/03/2023 20:45

@Retractable I married my DH despite owning my own flat and a much higher income because I loved him and because I thought once I was pregnant...might as well. I was very naive. It seemed natural progression. I actually was happy to be breadwinner and him to be a house husband. I now know he thinks a house husband sits at home playing video games and scratching his balls while his wife pays for everything. And now I'm stuck.

I wish I'd known about MN before I got married

That’s the thing… of course you did. You did what you were supposed to do. The right thing is to get married, right?

It’s crap. As a society we set women up
to end up trapped looking after and propping up crap men. Anyone would think it was on purpose. 😫

Toddlerteaplease · 05/03/2023 21:17

My colleagues partner is an absolute knob. But she's only ever been single for two weeks in her adult life. She seems to think any man is better than being on her own. It's such a shame.

Itsallok · 06/03/2023 00:22

Dottymug · 05/03/2023 21:12

It was only having a reasonable salary which made it possible for me to leave. If I could give any young woman advice it would be to establish a career first and keep it at all costs.

Agreed. Of course there are some posters on MN which think you are not supporting women's choices.

Itsallok · 06/03/2023 00:29

I would also add that it is not about victim-blaming but you can only do something about yourself and your actions and choices. Blaming the man constantly means women become infantile. Yes, sometimes things happen that invalidate that comment, but there are also many instances where you can see women knowingly or unknowingly, making themselves extremely vulnerable. So keep repeating the message above

If I could give any young woman advice it would be to establish a career first and keep it at all costs.

Hopefully eventually it sinks in. And for gods sake, have a conversation whoever you are planning to have children to discuss the realities of it all first.

Rinse and repeat

ladykale · 06/03/2023 08:18

Lentil63 · 04/03/2023 23:30

No one ever told me that I should expect anything for myself. I was always told to put everyone before myself. He made sure I understood how unbelievably lucky I was to have him (I was only thirteen at the outset). He criticised me frequently. He compared me unfavourably with other women. He made me feel like I was so lucky to have him because no one else would want me. He bemoaned my (lack of) interest in sex while demanding I orgasmed with him without any foreplay; he called me frigid. I thought there was something wrong with me sexually. He made sure I knew how many women found him interesting.
I’ve been with him now for 47 years! He’s better but can still be difficult. I feel so very sad for my younger self.

I bet you are 100x the person he will ever be.

Please look in the mirror ever morning and tell yourself how beautiful, wonderful and clever you are!

There is zero chance of orgasming with no foreplay, so actually HE was just a terrible lover. Hope it got better for you xxx

ladykale · 06/03/2023 08:20

@MeinKraft because marriage benefits the financially weaker party if the man has ok finances, as opposed to being left with nothing after frequently having scaled back work to increase childcare

Thepeopleversuswork · 06/03/2023 08:25

@Retractable

That’s the thing… of course you did. You did what you were supposed to do. The right thing is to get married, right?
It’s crap. As a society we set women up
to end up trapped looking after and propping up crap men. Anyone would think it was on purpose. 😫

Exactly. Turns out most of the rules about how to live your life as a woman lead to financial dependency on a man and an unwritten contract that you will be his domestic helpmeet and general propper-upper.

Like @Dottymug and @MarchMate I would have been totally and utterly stuffed in my marriage if I hadn't hung onto my job. It was literally a lifeline that prevented me from dependence on an unpredictable and abusive alcoholic who didn't see himself as having any responsibilities towards me, either financial or domestic.

I agree that the whole narrative about the ideal relationship between men and women in society needs radically reframing. Take this trope about feminism being about "women's choices". This is a nice phrase but often the subtext to this is often that a "choice" to remain at home and care for children while being supported by your husband is equally valid as the decision to work. It's true that remaining dependent is a woman's choice and I would defend that choice to the death. It's also true that it's a very risky choice in my view which leaves women dangerously exposed. Yes it can work out but when it doesn't it's a disaster.

At the other end of the scale is the narrative that marriage is always a Good Thing in and of itself and for the reasons discussed above this is far from universally true: this can also be a dangerous trap which leaves many women subsidising men to do very little.

Why is it that in a supposedly post-feminist society most roads lead women either into financial dependence on men or into underwriting their lack of hard work or initiative? Apart from just deciding not to engage with them at all (a decision for which I applaud women), what options are there for a heterosexual women?

ladykale · 06/03/2023 08:31

Callmenat · 05/03/2023 07:48

Why are so many men putting up with ghastly wives/partners?

Making the point that it's not a gender specific question.

Not many are.

Sorry but this isn't something that applies both ways.

Kind of like racism towards white people. It can in theory exist but so much is deeply ingrained in the past due to institutionalised racism, of sexism in this case, a whole society based on patriarchy, so much misogyny in the interpretation of gender roles and seeing women as less, that men are typically far worse and more abusive than women are

ladykale · 06/03/2023 08:33

Saturday82 · 05/03/2023 08:51

When I was in an emotionally abusive, controlling relationship, the biggest problem was actually friends' reactions.

Now I don't speak at all to a few people I used to be close to.

Comments from a few:

"You're degrading women. Straight women are such stupid cows." (lesbian friend)

"LOL boyfriend. He's just not that into you. Bitter pill to swallow. There, saved you a fortune on therapy. xxx" (Gay male friend)

"It's your own fault. We're all sick of it." (friend)

"It's boring." (Friend who spoke about her relationship problems non-stop but never let me get a word in)

After more than a year of therapy and looking at boundaries, I realised several of my friends had the same narcissistic traits. She said this is a normal thing to discover.

Gosh, this isn't normal from actual friends!

ladykale · 06/03/2023 08:34

MarchMate · 05/03/2023 09:06

@Hairmouse I am that woman. DH does very little. I am the main earner.

It's the kids. I don't want to leave my kids with him for poss 50% of their lives. I don't want to lose our family home. I don't want them to move nursery. I don't want them to be exposed to the very worst traits of my husband which will come out if I leave him. I don't want to have to continue to deal with him for years arguing over visits and custody - our kids caught in the middle. When you have very young kids there is no clean break

If there were no kids I would be running into the sunset

He will get more of your money / any equity in your house the longer you leave it...

Few men actually want 50/50 custody

Nosandwichfilling · 06/03/2023 08:48

@MissHoneysHappyEnding our mortgage was paid off in our mid thirties and we could just buy another house outright right now if we split up.

We got together when I was 30, he is a little younger and by then both of us had already made an ok amount of money due to investing which we started doing as teenagers when we didn’t know each other. I took out a pension when I was 21 which is 35 years ago. We have defined benefits pensions. A militant labour teacher of mine explained the evils of capitalism to us in general studies and got us to play the markets to show us how evil it was. I sometimes think I should find that man and thank him. I had never even heard of the stock market till then.

The other driving force in my life is that I am not white and my family were also poor, I faced shocking racism as a kid. It was open season in the 1970’s. Wanting to do well it is hard to describe the deep level of needing to prove myself. Adversity can crush people or make them in to fighters.

YouAreNotBatman · 06/03/2023 08:53

Spectre8 · 05/03/2023 19:15

Show quote history

Thank you.

mydogisthebest · 06/03/2023 08:59

I think so many women are so desperate to have children they jump into a relationship to do so. Or they are unhappy but still go ahead and have a child and then, obviously, it becomes difficult to leave.

It amazes me how many posters say how unhappy they are, how awful the OH is and then say they have 3 children or are expecting their 3rd, 4th or whatever. Crazy