Why are so many women putting up with ghastly husbands/partners?

[Dottymug]

It's the 21st century. Women have so many more opportunities and choices than they had in the past. So why are so many women posting on here about being sworn at, insulted, betrayed and treated as slaves by men who they've no intention of leaving/chucking out? It's utterly depressing. Don't put up with that shit. Life is too short.

I was raised in a cult and brainwashed into thinking getting married and having babies was my ticket to heaven, and it's what would bring me the deepest joy/fulfilment possible. So I married young, had babies young, and finally divorced in my late 30s. Have been scrambling to gain independence since, and have done a bloody good job of it, too. I'm certainly raising my daughters differently.

@MarchMate

'be asking is why men keep treating women this awfully.'

Well the uncomfortable answer to that question, is because they can

Theyre allowed to

Theyre brought in abusive households

Theyre taught, directly and indirectly, that what they want matters more and what they say goes

I doubt very many abusive men would admit they were abusive

The only way to stop the abuse is for the woman to leave.

And of course that's incredibly difficult and very dangerous.

Teaching healthy relationships starts with teaching about healthy boundaries and keeping independence

So much for opportunities and choices... I'm glad I asked the question because I do think it's a conversation that needs to be had. Far too many women seem to be trapped in relationships with abusive partners and finances have come up again and again on this thread as a reason. It definitely appears that our best hope for the future lies in teaching our daughters not to give up their careers and to maintain a degree of financial independence (which might mean marriage is not their best option). For this generation, perhaps more realistic child support rules might be a start (guessing a different government will need to be in place). It's ridiculous that leaving a marriage should leave a women with children in poverty while their spouses wash their hands of their responsibilities.

'Post about a happy marriage, a decent partner, and you’re told not to be smug or insensitive as a lot of women on here aren’t happy so the general tone is one of negativity about men and relationships and people think well at least mine doesn’t hit me or swear at the kids, and step families and online dating sound shit so it’s easier to put up and shut up'

There is some truth in this, on MN.

A small part for me is those 'what would you, with hindsight, have told your 15 year old self?' OPs. They're riven with 'he's a bastard, disengage'; 'Take your GCSEs seriously' etc. But you need firm, adult parents to steer you through those choppy waters. So many girls and women don't have that.

There's no solution. Tho if I were in charge, I'd ensure every man understood that he WILL be paying for his children, birth to 18. He will be relentlessly chased for CS, which won't necessarily mean access. The guys would be much more careful about where they stuck their unprotected dicks if the consequences lasted 18 years- and some women might realise that getting mindlessly pregnant isn't such a great idea.

@Thelnebriati very well said…
If we really want women to have choices; we have to build an infrastructure to give women choices.
I think this thread the first question posed is very interesting. It shows that a lot of women, including the OP, assume that women are on an even keel financially and otherwise with their husbands or partners, and share power equally, and so can leave.

In reality -

• Child maintenance is very low, not really enforced
• real issues with shared parenting, it’s often not easy or amicable
• financially it’s not just a question of having less money for holidays, it’s having to change kids schools, move area, disrupt stability, these are serious matters for kids
• women have a much harder time trying to reestablish careers, social life and a new partner after divorce than men, especially if they’ve had kids whereas for men being older, divorced with kids has far less of a barrier to getting other partners, carrying on career and socializing. Also far less of a stigma.
• This is without looking into domestic abuse and coercive control

I did leave my Ex, but it took a long time which very few of my friends understood. So I’m not advocating women to stay, but my god it’s not easy and society could make it a lot easier!

My point is, that if women would focus on themselves in their teens and 20s, on their education, their job experience, their marketability, financial savings, networking, etc., INSTEAD of getting involved in long-term relationships, they would be older and wiser and more readily apt to spot the losers and abusers by the time they are at least 10 years out of school if not into their 30s. (and there is plenty of fertility left then; worrying about the biological clock is a piss-poor excuse for mating with any old jerk.)

Exactly. It’s not about stigmatising or women who have made bad choices because let’s face it most of us have done that. It’s about reframing the narrative so we get into the heads of girls and young women that the need to look past the nonsense about marriage being the ultimate goal and the idea that your energy is primarily directed at finding and keeping a man.

Honestly, you can be conned by losers at any age/intelligence/financial security

You can indeed. But being conned by a loser is much less of a disaster when you have your own source of funding. If you've been supported by that loser for years and need his blessing/support to do anything you're well and truly stuffed.

Well come now, well and truly stuffed.

Women have been known to claw their way back from the most catastrophic of circumstances.

I know my mother most certainly did.

To say they are well and truly stuffed is really unhelpful and not at all constructive.

I think the thing is that anyone's relationship/marriage can go bad in totally unforeseen ways but if you start off with someone who quickly shows they are bone idle, mean, expect you to be paying out and doesn't discuss fair shares relative to income, texts other women, sees you as a housekeeper/hooker , is handy with fists or tongue then their is a much higher than average chance it will turn to shit- so don't rush into living together unless it's 100% in your name, or rush to get pregnant or give up jobs until a long way down the road- if at all.

That's fair and many women do. But it's certainly much easier to "claw back" if you have a job or at least a job history, than if you haven't worked for years and have to reinvent yourself after being a SAHM.

A lot of women assume that being married is an automatic protection but even in a best case scenario you still have to go through a painful divorce which can take years to conclude in very unpleasant circumstances. And you may get a decent cash payout at the end of it but without maintenance, or a house which you can't afford to maintain. It's much better than nothing but it's a long way from being the silver bullet it's presented as.

””””My point is, that if women would focus on themselves in their teens and 20s, on their education, their job experience, their marketability, financial savings, networking, etc., INSTEAD of getting involved in long-term relationships, they would be older and wiser and more readily apt to spot the losers and abusers by the time they are at least 10 years out of school if not into their 30s. (and there is plenty of fertility left then; worrying about the biological clock is a piss-poor excuse for mating with any old jerk.)””””

I don’t disagree, but teenage years and 20’s are goint to be toughest times not to do this.
When your peers start to date, won’t have time for you, dragging thise smelly boys around in your face, they have the status symbols when you don’t, bullying for lack of a man/sex…
It’s going to take a strong woman (most aren’t) to get through that time.

And you said long term relationships, do you think casual, short relationships, hook-up’s would be better?
I don’t, for most women those won’t work.
It usually leaves women with low self-esteem and worth and also low standards for future men.
All this would just lead broken women with no value for themselves.

Not to mention surging baby wanting hormones!

Can’t relate🤣!
Never had those, lucky me.

@YouAreNotBatman

I don’t disagree, but teenage years and 20’s are goint to be toughest times not to do this.
When your peers start to date, won’t have time for you, dragging thise smelly boys around in your face, they have the status symbols when you don’t, bullying for lack of a man/sex…
It’s going to take a strong woman (most aren’t) to get through that time.
And you said long term relationships, do you think casual, short relationships, hook-up’s would be better?
I don’t, for most women those won’t work.
It usually leaves women with low self-esteem and worth and also low standards for future men.
All this would just lead broken women with no value for themselves.

This is really interesting: I know what you mean about this, there is a huge amount of peer pressure in your teens to be interested in boys and relationships and coupling up. But here's what's interesting. In developing societies girls are absolutely not interested in this. They're far more interested in progressing at school, getting to university, getting the hell out. Because they know that this is the key to success.

I think culturally we are still living with the vestiges of a world where status for women is intimately bound up with being attached to the right man. The status of the boyfriend is almost more important than your own status. And this is what we need to get away from. We need to create generations of young women for whom who they are coupled up with simply isn't a consideration, because they are not focused on who they ultimately want to get married to. This isn't going to happen overnight. It might take several generations. But it's what we should aspire to.

To answer your question about long term vs short term relationships: actually for younger women I do think shorter, more casual relationships are better. I really don't think it's ever a good idea for a woman in her teens or early 20s to become too attached to a boy or man. It rarely ends in her achieving her full potential, partly because she is likely to take her focus away from her career, partly because she is likely to get pregnant too young. I think teenagers' approach to relationships is an attempt to try to "mirror" what they think a relationship should be like for an older woman and honesty it's usually not appropriate. Casual sex can leave people feeling vulnerable and exposed, but I don't think having a multi-year relationship with a boy is necessarily any better. Far better to wait and not have relationships at all until you are ready for them.

I know this may well not be in my gift but I would far prefer my daughter not get into a relationship at all until she's in her mid 20s. I really don't see much benefit in it for young women.

Yeah, and those who do usually need tons of taxpayer-funded benefits and other societal support. How about encouraging girls and women not to screw up in the first place? That's what we are urging.

Yes, I know all about urges and hormones but still, many people manage to NOT get entangled with horrible men, by exercising self-discipline and by prioritizing education, work and stability over dating, mating and "loooove." It's not impossible.

I lose sympathy for them especially when they go on to have children, and god forbid multiple children, over and over with the same asshole. That's not being a victim, that's being a perpetrator

I genuinely can't believe you've written this.

No, they're victims.
I actually think it's one of the most horrific, anti-women things I've read on MN.
Stockholm Syndrome/Battered Wives Syndrome is real.
People live with the wounds of childhood and adult trauma which impacts decisions.
Some men change as has been explained.
Sometimes women just - children or not - find it really hard practically and emotionally to leave.
Women really, really don't need other women bringing them down.

@Thepeopleversuswork

I agree.

And I don't agree short term relationships will lead to low self esteem or self worth for women

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune yes of course the current generation should be urged to have a career etc. be independent.

But that's not to say those who are stuck now and indeed those who are stuck in the future should not be helped along the same road to financial independence.

It's really not always as black and white and straight forward.

I don't think anyone's saying its black and white and certainly not that women in abusive relationships shouldn't be helped.

But it is perfectly reasonable to examine why we as a society seem to almost funnel women into relationships which at best are a dead end for their careers and at worst end up being downright abusive. There are deep-seated cultural and social reasons why so many women end up in these situations. It's not their fault, usually, but we need to try to stop it happening as the default.

At what point do we hold people responsible for their own series of life choices, instead of categorizing them as "victims" ??

At what point do we hold them responsible for the effect of those choices on innocent offspring AND the rest of society, which has to contend with the damage to those offspring, perhaps for the rest of the offsprings' natural lives?

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune If nothing else you're definitely committed to the bit.

Desperate to married and not viewed as unwanted

'Wife without the ring' doing everything for a man in order to impress him/be seen as wife material - then expecting him to magically change after marriage and suddenly not want and expect everything to be done for him; despite fact, that is how she presented herself to him...

& of course - Men who present their best self to prospective wife. Be it love bombing, hiding violent or lazy or manipulative tendencies extremely well pre-marriage, their true face shows eventually. & if by then the woman has children then it's harder to leave. She may not want to - she may want and hope for the man she married back. & may not want to separate children from their father. The decision isn't just about her.

There are many reasons for it being hard to walk away from a marriage, just as there are many reasons for a woman to be mad to stay. It's rarely clear-cut.

Schools should be focused on life and relationship education, not just sex education.

One of my dearest friends does it because she’s lonely, she’d rather have an unsuitable alcoholic boyfriend than be alone.